My husband asked how much ammo we have & I sai...
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My husband asked how much ammo we have & I sai...
I will reiterate the PM I sent to a few "members" and will send to anyone else here that has a problem with the way this site and the and the TP is ran.
If you don't like it leave, plain and simple.
Now that is funny!Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickNorris
Sadly, many people have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazin
oh well. if one is that butt hurt over any web sites policy they leave. With this as more of a community, than say FB or other social media. Perhaps they really were not part of the community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer
I"d still be leery of the non - residents on the forum.
I'd probably have a lot less ammo if there were decent places to shoot outdoors here. [Rant2] I get jealous when I drive through places like Montrose that have a nice, big public shooting range on the outskirts of town. I lived in Laramie, WY from 2000 - 2005 and the shooting range was 15 minutes away. Even in the dead of Winter I could usually get there in my 2wd Ranger. I'd go shooting after class or on weekends because ammo was pretty cheap and range membership was only $50/year. It was about the cheapest entertainment I had.
WRT the whole "steel case ammo" controversy, the biggest downfall of steel case is that (a) you can't shoot it at (most) indoor ranges and (b) most of the ranges that are within a reasonable driving distance of Denver are indoors.
I know some of the older/cheaper Chinese 7.62x39 ammo that was imported in the 1990's had steel-cored bullets that apparently did a lot of damage to the backstops of indoor shooting ranges, but I don't know if the Russian 5.56 and 9mm ammo that is currently imported (Tula et al) is steel jacketed or steel cored. Either way, most indoor ranges won't let you shoot anything with a steel case. Whether it's because they fear damage to their equipment (which is reasonable) or because they'd rather you purchase their more expensive ammo at the range, it makes a day of shooting a more expensive proposition than it would be otherwise.
So that puts me in the dilemma of: Do I go to an indoor range and pay exorbitant prices for range ammo, or do I drive an hour or two to Pawnee Buttes or Harris Park to shoot steel case? [Dunno]
The old "Money or Time" dilemma has prevented me from doing much shooting lately, but on the flip side that means I'm well stocked for the Covid-19 Zombie Apocalypse. :D
Membership is definitely a little stale, but for many more reasons than the trading postQuote:
Originally Posted by Jer
As far as steel case, I generally don't worry about it in my hand guns, but I had a steel cased .308 get stuck in my Savage that kind of soured me on the whole experience. When I went to knock it out with a rod, the primer just opened up like a little door and made everything much more difficult to work with. I ended up having to take it down to Bowers. That one case cost me several days, right before hunting. Not that I'd have been using steel case for hunting ammo, but that could have easily ruined a hunt.
It's become a rather hostile environment with little intervention by forum staff. I'm not sure why they tolerate such aggressiveness between members and yet feel like it is important to intervene in for sale posts. I don't understand but it's not my forum so it's not important for me to understand. This is a freedom-loving crowd in general and most tend to appreciate the free market model over draconian control of who can sell what & at what price. It's not like anybody is being forced to make a purchase so I don't understand why they feel the need to regulate prices on what they determine is fair. All that should matter is if the buyer & seller agree on a price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Personally, I used to list a ton of stuff in the marketplace section of this form. Lots of good transactions both a buyer & seller plus I got to know more members this way then at any other capacity. It was a little more free-flow at the time and while things weren't perfect I felt like it was a welcoming place to trade between the members of this forum. There has become so many rules that I tend to shy away from listening stuff simply because I don't want to get reprimanded because I made a mistake on some weird rule I didn't even realize I broke.
Not trying to ruffle feathers, just giving some honest constructive criticism that I hope is received that way by forum staff. I feel I've been around long enough through some of the changes to qualify to state my opinion on the topic.
If you are a FBer, Mrgunsngear is constantly posting sources for online sales at reasonable prices.
I've used Ammoseek in the past with good results of accurate cost/inventories.
Agreed, this along with Gunbot have been great over the years. The biggest hassle is comparing price per round after tax and shipping are added in.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillysWagon
I thought about this a lot the last few days deciding whether I wanted to post or not. However, first and foremost; I?m a participant on this forum, and I don?t donate my time to run it so I respect the wishes of those who do even in situations where I don?t agree. I think there are three ways of looking at things. The market changes constantly, and we all need to adapt (I don?t agree at all with price fixing). I?ve been buying since high school in the 80s; I?ve seen plenty of ups and downs along the way. I will tell you right now that there are things I?ve held until prices went back up and then listed them because I didn?t want to lose my shorts selling them in a low market. In general I believe in the free market; if you are buying and selling, you accept and pay the market rate. I spent the last seven years preparing for the eventual ammo shortage, and I tried to encourage my friends to do the same. I do have a problem with the scalpers who buy up resources screwing others who need them and scalp with their prices. I was absolutely disgusted with the people who camped out at Walmart to buy all the bricks of 22lr to sell at $50-$75 a brick. I didn?t buy from those people, and made a note of who they were so I wouldn?t buy from them in the future. During this coronavirus thing, I made it to the stores before they were cleaned out, and I could have taken anything but only took what I needed so the person behind me could get what they needed. Lastly, I definitely agree with the community aspect of the board. If somebody is in need, I wouldn?t try to sell them anything; I would just give it to them. In close I think the message would be better received in terms of ethics not price fixing, but that is just my humble opinion. Scalping shouldn?t be tolerated; in general it?s a shitty thing to do to people. I don?t think it is unethical for people to raise their prices if the market supports those prices; personally, I thought Ron?s ad was reasonable and a decent deal given the current market especially given the fact the ammo was from his own personal stash. However, I definitely understand the desire to keep this a community trading place; I wouldn?t want it to be armslist either...trust outweighs profit for me every time. In general, I?ve been very thankful to have this board over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer
Don't know you or your wife, but it sounds like she knows how to read you. [Coffee]Quote:
Originally Posted by jreifsch80
ETA: If we're going to keep debating the Trading Post practices for ammo pricing, why not re-open that thread rather than starting the conversation all over again in this thread?
The arbitrary nature of the ammo selling rule is a bit open ended and I can understand how that could be frustrating. I almost never use the trading post so I don't have a dog in this fight, but it sure seems like it could have a bit less grey area.
For example, one of the newer posts right now is a spam can of 7.62x54r that sold for $125. Someone thought that was a good deal and that's great. But that's basically double what I paid for all the cans that I have in my stores. So the opinion of a good deal is not universal.
The new rule? Don't offer a deal that you wouldn't offer to your priest, mother or best friend.
By that logic:
I'd give my mother a spam can of 7.62x54r or any ammo for free.
I'd sell a spam can to my priest or best friend for what I paid for it years ago.
So, the rules prevent me from profiting what-so-ever.
But for others that would profit off their moms, where's the line? Current market rate? (Super high now...). Last month's price? Last year's price? The price paid years ago like my 7.62x54r?
As it stands, that answer is up to the Mods discretion. If they want some grey area so they can treat every situation as unique, i can understand that. Shit is changing quickly right now. It might be frustrating for some, but they're driving this train, so it is what it is. There are other ways to sell ammo if that's what you want to do.
^^ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by hollohas
Which is what it ultimately came down to in the other thread.
Where were the mods years ago when everyone was selling their $500 AR?s for $1,000 on here?
(Just being a smart ass. Not legitimately complaining. Please don?t ban me. This is my only contact with other people for who knows how long.)
Im going to guess thats why they started doing it now after going through all that?Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
After not having been on CTD's web site for over a year (maybe more, can't remember) I went there to see what the fuss was about.
7.62x39 Russian steel case ammo going for $20+ for a box of 20. This is stuff you could buy at Wally World for under $5/box a few months back. Crazy! At least 7.62x39 was available - all the more popular calibers (9mm and .223) were apparently sold out.
I guess I don't get it. I can understand buying ammo post Sandy Hook when it looked like there might be severe restrictions on ammo coming down (which would likely have been permanent)* but I don't see any effect of the virus being long-lived.
* I actually expected to see online ammo sales outlawed under Obama, I'm surprised he never tried that. For you youngn's out there, mail order ammo sales were outlawed per the 1968 gun control act and were only permitted again starting in 1986. I'm old enough that I still remember when not only did you have to buy ammo in person, if it was a pistol caliber (which included .22lr) any store that sold ammo was required to maintain a record of sales in a book that was inspectable by the ATF and/or the local police.
Some of those were $1,200 AR's (cost to buy or build) that sold for $1400. Is that gouging? Is it OK to make $200 for taking a chance, tying up funds (on something you might just get stuck with), and having access to a few things by spending 18 hours a day looking?Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
Tier 1? [ROFL2]Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal
Do you even panic bro?Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
Why would I pay outrageous prices for ammunition? That's implying I have something to shoot it from (or that I haven't learned to buy things before peak panic).
We're witnessing how many people refused to learn after obama in 2008, the hag in 2016, and now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
A popular gun shop in town is advertising pmc bronze 223 for $16 a box. A box of 20.
Still cheaper than the last price I saw for bulk ammo at CDNN for $999/1K.Quote:
Originally Posted by colorider
If it's new stock, which is likely, that's probably not much of a markup over their cost this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by colorider
So instead the "solution" is to not allow someone to sell something for a price that they're willing to part with it for that a buyer is willing to pay for something they can't otherwise get? Makes no sense. In this scenario someone is sitting on a surplus of something they could part with (for a profit, mind you) and I want something bad enough that I'm willing to pay a premium and instead I'm not even able to pay more to buy something and am instead left with nothing. I just don't get how this mindset is "protecting" anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by MED
I've been thankful of this forum too but I feel as though the numbers of people I recognize is dwindling as of late. I myself haven't been as active and when I ask why it usually comes down to two things 1) the people I used to discuss topics with seem to no longer be around and the ones remaining are people who don't seem capable of discussing a topic they may not agree with civilized without resorting to personal attacks and 2) I don't really use the for sale section any longer and when I do it's almost never to sell something due to how afraid I am to ruffle feathers. It's just not worth it.
When I consider that, I have to wonder how many long-time members are no longer here for similar reasons. I then have to wonder what can be done and none of it is within my power so I guess I'm one of many who simple fall into the "lump it" category since we're told to "like it or lump it" as our only two options.
I don't even know what ammo thread has jimmies ruffled and I don't really care TBH. I'm not talking to that specific thread(s) but more of an over-arching observation.
My experience is that some people horde and these people tend to do so when prices are low... not high. So when supply is low they're not going to spend a premium to stock pile unless they think that things are going to get even crazier... which hasn't happened to this point. In this scenario, the economy crumbles and anarchy ensues. The dollar is worthless. The person who just bought a case of ammo at "gouging" prices now has a commodity he can use to protect him and his family and the seller has worthless paper in his possession. At best he now has paper with FAR less worth than it previously had. In this scenario, who wins?
Assuming this never happens, and the buyer just paid a mark-up for something he deemed valuable at the time... who's losing? The guy who stocked up on the ammo when it was available has some degree of risk associated with this investment as well so shouldn't he/she expect to be compensated for this risk exposure? Instead we want them to invest in an intangible object like the stock market and when they sell for a profit they're praised for shrewd financial foresight? I don't get how the same thing can be done while offering a tangible item for sale that a buyer is willing to pay for is somehow seen as repulsive. Kind of feels more like sour grapes than anything else.
My buddy held of on buying an AR15 for years until ol' Barry got into office. Then, everyone freaked out and he had to rush out and get an AR15 that day. I met him at the LGS to help him get something decent since he knew nothing about them. He ended up paying 2x more for the AR15 he got had he bought it a year earlier but guess what... he doesn't regret that purchase today. He loves his rifle and he wanted one and had the means to buy what he wanted and assigned proper value for his purchase at that time.
I just don't see why anyone would want to be the judge/jury/executioner of what is proper and improper pricing for an item that they aren't the buyer or seller of. Just seems like an awfully slippery slope with very little upside.
I didn't mean for that to be an entire manifesto but I guess I had more thoughts on the topic than I realized. Just my two cents, adjusted for Coronavirus FUD of course.
Dont forget 2013 after sandy hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
That was pretty crazy too.
Why is this so hard?
We are guests on this forum. They have rules and guidelines. These can change whenever or however the owners want.
Abide by the rules and stop whining or go to another forum.
Easy.
[Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
@Jer Whatever helps you sleep at night
+1, this is exactly how I feel also. Seems like some here are letting there emotions get the better of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
Who are you to decide that constructive feedback is "whining"? Seems a pretty self-important observation on your part.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
Sure, that's the attitude they can take but before long there won't be any guests.
89 was the real one. When com-block ammo stopped being imported.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPrena
The same people who i told forget buying a box or 2 , buy a case. Said Oh no i don't want to spend that much. Had no issue paying me $400 per case, without hesitating.
Why? because any that was available was that price + s&h etc limit of 1. I could not replace it for less than $450.
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/177805-Trading-Post-PSAQuote:
Originally Posted by Jer
I tend to agree with Jer on the attitudes lately on the forum. I take no position on ammo prices on the forum as I have what I need and have no intention to sell. However it seems people posting their opinions lately are subject to personal attacks more than I have noticed in the past rather than having a civilized back and forth. Don't know if it is folks being shelteried in place, alcohol consumption, or both. Maybe just stress. We are better than this. Let's just all chill. This will pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer
The good part about not having tons of ammunition is if the time comes to pull the trigger you really have to ask yourself if that person is worth wasting a bullet on.
Ammunition scarcity and high prices could save lives.
Im sorry I commented, now back to the tesla, crossfit, toyota truck talk that we all love so much.
I don't post often, but have been on this site longer than most.
I've seen lots of people come & go, some great, some not so much.
We have this site as a place to share knowledge, thoughts, etc..
The trading post is a benefit of being a member here, just not the 'only' reason to be here.
The trading post is also singularly the most PITA part of this site, from a Mods perspective.
In this time of stress & not knowing what the future holds, I simply ask this.
All of us are human, we make mistakes, get angry & have bad days when stressed.
If you want to blowup on someone, be snarky or just a downright jackwagon, maybe step back from the computer for a bit.
I’ve met some amazing people on this site and am honored to call them friends.
We are after all, A Community.
YMMV,
WillysWagon
These exchanges are very interesting, about current very high priced ammo and now I wonder just what is considered “gouging” prices. If someone paid some extremely high prices for ammo during the last large ammo shortage, would they be considered as gouging if they merely attempted to get just what they paid for it and NOT make a profit? [blaster]
Its funny some act like this is the only spot on the internet to buy, Sell and trade. The Staff has given its stance, the membership has commented, now move on because its not going change.