I politely answer the door, but if I say thanks, and I'm not interested, they should say the same and leave. When they start asking or "telling" after that, I get more firm with them leaving the porch.
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I politely answer the door, but if I say thanks, and I'm not interested, they should say the same and leave. When they start asking or "telling" after that, I get more firm with them leaving the porch.
You have one thing correct, I am STRONGLY anti-religion. Don't misconstrue what I'm saying. I DO beleive in God, but I have strong aversion to organized worship of any kind. I think it all borders on cult-like activity. I was baptized Catholic, but renounced it years ago when those hypocritical child molesters wouldn't baptize my daughter, juse because her mother and I weren't married.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhunter
I don't want people to NOT stand up for gun rights, but it's the Christian fundamentalist whack jobs that I don't want to be associated with. The likes of James Dobson or Ted Haggard. People always assume i'm some super right wing conservative jesus freak, just because I love me some guns.
The only reason I love firearms, is because they are beautiful works of art, that can end life. So much more than just the sum of their parts.
for some reason they always catch me when I'm getting home and out of my truck. They follow me up to my door. "Nice day today Sir". "It sure is" I reply as I shut the door behind me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_S
I remember when I believed there was an invisible man in the sky that came down as his own son to save us from all the bad things in life.
And then I started to think logically.
[ROFL1]
We live so far out,, they don't come. OK well once they did, I let em drive all the way down, get out of their car walk all the way up to the house and then told em I didn't live here and was wait'n on the owner to get here from prison.
He was paroled today....Wanna here his story???
They said have a nice day and left.
Right before you die, what are you going to say to yourself? GOT JESUS![Coffee]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn.man
[ROFL1][ROFL1][ROFL1][Beer]
Not exactly. They have changed some basic tenets of Christian beliefs to make their version their own. It isn't basic Christianity with a couple updates, there are some significant differences. I'm not saying this to bash them, and I'm not saying they're not good folks. I know a few myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
I will say this: if you start looking into some of their history, there are some areas they really don't like outsiders to get into, like Brother Brigham's avenging angels for example. And their dispensing with the polygamy thing had more to do with better fitting into society than deciding that there was something wrong with it.
I will assume that you don't have a large amount of knowledge about Christianity from what you've said. I'm not judging, I'm just saying. The Mormon folks are certainly welcome to believe as they choose. But I'm here to tell you that Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, and company are NOT "just more recent prophets" to me. That'd be like saying that Obama is just a more recent conservative. Those may be their prophets, but they aren't mine.
You're making a good argument to be a religious "progressive". That's fine. But I'm one of those who doesn't believe that "progressive" politicians are trying to help us by re-interpreting the Second Amendment and the rest of the Constitution, and I don't believe that everyone should be constantly re-interpreting the Bible, and adding or changing whatever makes them feel good.
Lots of folks seem to think that it's OK to change things to be what they want them to be, or redefine things to be more convenient, or whatever, as long as it makes them what they want them to be or doesn't affect them. I tend to think that the Constitution means what it says, and doesn't need to be constantly re-interpreted. Same with the Bible. I think it's ironic that Federal Laws are called the "U.S. Code", because it's written in such a way that you're forced to hire interpreters (lawyers) in an effort to try to make sense of it, and what you get is, once again, someone's interpretation.
There are plenty of people who call themselves "Christians" out there who give everyone else who calls themself a Christian a bad name. Those whackjobs out in Kansas who protest at the funerals of Servicemembers who've given the ultimate sacrifice come to mind. Everyone sees what they do and immediately associates ALL people who call themselves Christian with them. But I will observe that calling yourself something does not automatically make you that thing. And I seriously doubt that Christ would condone what those folks in Kansas do.
Just my opinion.
You make strong points, and of course I haven't had the time to look too much into either religion. With that said, what do you have to say about the change in tone from the Old Testament and the New Testament? I haven't gotten to the new testament yet, so I'm not real familiar with how they are different.
More people have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason.
My personal feeling is that religion is just a tool or empty vessel. Just because someone carries out a war in the name of religion, doesn't mean it is religion's fault. Obama is trying to ruin the country with this stupid health care crap, but I wouldn't say that health care in of itself is a bad thing.
The Old Testament was pre-Christ. You could only go to heaven if you were without sin, which was impossible because Adam and Eve introduced sin into the world, OR if you made sacrifices to God such as an animal. The animal, such as a lamb, stood in for you and died in your place to cover your sins (the "blood of the lamb"). The new Testament is after God sent Christ. The "deal" changed then; Christ was without sin but died for ours. So he made it so that people don't have to be perfect to be able to go to heaven. Christ was the sacrifice, hence the "lamb of God".Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
I live in a gated community, and they have a sign like the one above at all the gates, and they still come knocking 1-2 times a year, I just tell them if they were not able to read the sign at the gate where they came in, the police will be glad to read it to them while they write them a trespassing ticket... and I already called them when I seen you pull up, and they usually get to the exit rather fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by funkfool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troublco
Oh yeah, like what?
(I'm just curious what kind of crap about mormons you've heard that you think is true)
You want a doctrinal tussle? I won't play. We used to call it bible bashing, and it's a bloody waste of time. You can't prove to anyone the truthfullness of anything. They have to decide it for themselves.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has something else no other religion on the planet has. The Book of Mormon.
If it's a true book, then the religion is true. If it's not, it's not.
Anyone can find out for themselves if it true or not, by reading it and then praying and asking God if it is.
Mormons believe that this life is a time to learn and grow, and the most important thing we poses is our agency, our freedom to choose, and we grow closer to God by choosing to do good and by following the example that was left by Jesus Christ.
If the truth of a religion was provable it would kindof defeat the purpose, dontcha think?
I laugh at atheists. They look at the stars, and dig in the ground and decide for themselves how they think things are, and pat themselves on the back for being so smart. The same folks that thought for hundreds of years that the sun revolved around the flat earth. But I digress......
If the missionaries come to your door and you're not interested, just say no thanks. Don't be a douche.
I'm LDS. I served a mission, and went around knocking on people's doors. It was the most rewarding thing I've done in my life so far. Now I'm what they'd call "less active" Why? because I like to sin too much.
Most of the word of mouth ideas that people hear about the church is false.
There have always been anti-Mormons, since the whole thing first started. Every single one I've met or heard about had a personal beef with the church or someone in it, or was pushing their own brand of religion.
oh and btw....polygamy is illegal in this country. Anybody know why?
Because the latter day saints were doing it.
They didn't give it up because they wanted to 'fit in', they were trying to avoid being exterminated by the government.
and people still wank about it over 100 years later.
If in your beliefs you have to attack and/or bash Mormons to please God, then maybe you need to brush up on your bible. Try Matthew chapter 7 to start.
Quick hijack, what do you mean by 'wank'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elhuero
A religion discussion... Nothing good can come from this. Religion is pure faith, and no other origin of philosophy has molded societies moral structures more than the predominant religion of the realm.
Respecting anothers religious beliefs is as far as I go, but given freely and quite logical in the long run. I fought in Iraq with a muslim on one side of me and a jew on the other. We would have died for each other and religion had nothing to do with it. It was the respect. When they were both fasting for Ramadan and Yom Kippur (at the same time, ironically), nobody in the unit ate or drank in their presence, period. It didn't take an order either.
"No thank you. Have a nice day." That's all it takes.
BTW, there's a huge difference between the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
It's a pretty big difference...
No, I don't want a doctrinal tussle, although that looks like exactly what you're doing. You're right, everyone has to decide for themselves what they believe is true. The Jews don't believe that the Christians are right, the non-LDS Christians don't think the Mormons are right, etc. ad nauseum. You could go for hours on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elhuero
I agree with what you say about atheists. But that's for them to decide.
I don't push my religion on anyone. I don't mind if you're Mormon, and someone else is an atheist, and someone else is a pagan. Each to their own. I might not agree with them, but they are entitled to their opinion/view.
And if you got down to brass tacks, wouldn't you classify changing your beliefs to be trying to fit in? The Romans did a job on the early Christians to try to make them fit in, and untold numbers of them died for their beliefs. You say the Mormons abandoned polygamy so they wouldn't be "exterminated" by the Government. Now the Mormon church says they don't believe in it or accept it. So if the Muslims took over the country and started trying to exterminate the Mormons (and every other non-Muslim religion here) would the Mormons convert to Islam? I'm not trying to be contentious, I'm genuinely curious.
I was simply saying that I don't believe that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young are my prophets, and that as I understand it Mormons have differences in their beliefs such as their concept of Heaven (which is significantly different than what is in the King James Bible) as it has been explained to me by a MORMON. Doesn't mean you're wrong, doesn't mean I'm right. I'm saying your beliefs are not mine, and I don't believe they are simply a "More Modern" version. They are a different version; they are your version.
You want to lecture me on what I need to do? Go ahead. Lecture all you want; I'm fine with that. I'm not sitting here trying to make Stuart believe what I believe, or trying to please God in what I was saying. I was expressing my opinion. You have the freedom to do the same.
I have a question. I'm under the impression that the King James Bible is just a version of the Bible that was edited by King James to fit his whims. How can people take that seriously? I suspect there is more to it than that, so I'd like to hear what people have to say about it.
Sounds like you need Jesus!
depends on the person/religion. if you follow what the bible says and are a true believer (ie, don't have just blind faith but actually have experiences to back it up) then sharing the Gospel is simply what you think everyone needs to hear. i mean think about it, it may annoy you (believe me i can understand why) but in reality they are just hoping that you will have what they have: the promise of eternal life and a relationship with your creator. now if you don't agree with their beliefs, this will seem annoying to you, and like i said, understandably so. but in general it really is with good intentions.
for others, as previously stated by other posters, its a requirement. now its true in the bible it says to share your faith but it is not a requirement, simply something you should feel obligated to do based on what you have been given. other spin offs will say that you have to to go to heaven, etc, but there is nothing to really back that up.
So I am not alone![Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlin
When I moved to my newly purchased home, a few years ago, we had New Born Christians living across the street chanting and smiling at us...
ALL DAY LONG...
We started displaying our faith [Muaha] and our neighbor , who lives next door to them, started drowning their chants with Metallica and Sepultura!
They moved!
Now I happily live in a mostly Atheist-Satanist block of houses[Wiggle].
We did not start the war, but we sure won it.
Fight fire with fire!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Stu, read this: http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html
To sum it all up: At the time, there were literally hundreds of bibles supposedly translated from the Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic. However, they were all different, and some downright idiotic. James, wanted to get as pure a translation as possible so they made a convention and set rules for translation to get the most closely translated English version possible.
Even today, if you take the NIV vs the KJV, there are sublte differences that completely change the meaning of the verse, for example: http://www.chick.com/information/bib...comparison.asp
You're linking to Jack Chick's website in a non-ironic manner.
Might want to do something about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
?? I know nothing about jack chick, etc. I just googled differences between KJV and NIV and it popped up. Took out my bibles to check and they are correct, so I posted. Who is Jack and what's wrong with him?
Oh, bullshit. (with a smile and a wink) Hitler didn't kill in the name of religion, neither did Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and most of the worlds recent tyrants. Their killings overwhelm the relatively puny numbers of people killed in the name of god by Christians, Muslims, Jews, and whoever else has had a crusade. The truly gifted mass murderers did their thing for power, not god. In many cases, the victims of these monsters were people of faith. They were not the killers, but the killees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn.man
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K
Hitler and the above only killed a few Mill.
If you research religious war death tolls
from record keeping 55+ million or more are attributed to religious wars, be it the Crusades, witch hunts, the taming of American Indians (to convert them Christianity that is), Brigham Young, Muslims , and on and on.
Mao wins this gruesome contest all by himself with estimates ranging from 70 to 100 million. Add the others in, and it's no contest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn.man
Hitler - 10 million
Stalin - 20 million
Pol Pot - 2 million
I'd dispute the 55+ million number also. 15 minutes of research makes it look like getting to 1 million in the events you describe would be pretty difficult.
I don't mean to dispute that much harm has been done in the name of religion. Much certainly has. However, I disagree that religion is the main cause of war and suffering. Greed and power are the true motivators in most cases.
Problem is (and the Vatican is there to prove it), that religion, greed and power often go hand in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K
I find it highly ironic that pro-gun people talk about religion the same way that surrender monkeys talk about guns.
While I respect the Judeo-Christian ethic as well as the eastern philosophies and even the teachings of Mohamed, I find that organized religion has corrupted those beliefs in order to justify countless human atrocities throughout history. Were I to attend church, I would be a hypocrite.
the problem here is that very few people have been proven to be truly religious. most are like many of the muslim clerics in radical parts of the middle east today. they teach (often to illiterate people) that the religion says to kill anyone who disagrees, so what do these people do? they kill for that person. its a classic puppet/puppet master problem. the leadership who organize the death of people are rarely truly religious, they simply use religion to confuse and in some case blind people into doing what they want. in the end its all for power, religion is just used as a catalyst to gain support.Quote:
Originally Posted by refryguy
i can't really believe anyone would dispute that more deaths have been caused in the name of religion than none. as stated, mao himself is said to have been responsible for upwards of 50 million. hitler easily 20 million. stalin has numbers ranging from 20 million to 50 million. and so on and so forth. as previously stated, its all about power. heck, even in the bible you can see that with the pharisees. what they did was never in the name of religion, it was for personal gain, they just used religion to gain that power. there is a big difference
Here is what I am gonna do. Starting tomorrow I am going to attend religious gatherings of all denominations (monday thru sunday) get in good graces with all so that when my time here is done I can party like a rock star! Think of all the benefits from multiple religions when you die! I'm just kidding, but everyone here knows what happens to a polite religious conversation, they turn ugly...........everytime. So far though this one has been pretty civil, good work!
Actually most of those countless human atrocities throughout history were over land and/or money ... so do you feel like a hypocrite when you're at a bank or realtor's office?Quote:
Originally Posted by refryguy
Religions, like guns, are often misused by the evil. That doesn't mean that religions (or guns) in and of themselves are bad things.
+1 [Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundfolge
What the heck, I've been saying that for four pages now. Way to steal my thunder.
Maybe I was only thinking it...
[ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
but you said it in a fancy intellectual kind of way that us dummies can't understand.....[Tooth]Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Yeah, but who's gonna listen to a donkey? Buckwheat ... there's a brotha that commands the attention of a crowd.
OTAY!
Polygamy is just wrong! It's either Polyphilia or Multiamory, but mixing Latin and Greek roots is wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
H. [LOL]
Doesn't the LDS preach that Jesus lived in North America, and that the holy land is Missouri? Also, magic underwear: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment This is some of the crap I've heard, is it true? I once drove through Utah and, I got a hotel room. I turned on the local news. They were talking about "the church." The idea of some placing having a "The" church, was deeply disconcerting to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elhuero
H