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I wonder if this will cause people to pause and think?
Saturday June 11 - Day 41 I prayed for the first time in a very long time today. I explained to God that unless he wanted the Marxist-Islamic alliance and certain Islamic Takeover of Europe...he must ensure that the warriors fighting for the preservation of European Christendom prevail.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Article/201107116036361
The last time I was in Norway, there were two murders that year. Prior to that, I think there were approx 8 in the past 5 years. This guy has murdered more people in one day than previously on record for 25 years.
He killed a higher percentage of Norway's population than 9/11 killed Americans.
Nazi's were authoritarians, just like the communists and fascists are too. To some extent extreme right wingers are authoritarians too. I am not referring to Ron Paul types, they are quite the opposite. To understand how all those types of horrible govs came to power, you must first understand the authoritarian followers and their amoral leaders. What drives either side and triggers them to follow bad ideas off a cliff is the lesson to be learned. Not right or left garbage. I can understand why some right wingers say Obama rose to power like Hitler. But the correlations stop there. I personally don't like him. But for reasons many of you don't include.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier
The theoretical maximum sentence in Norway is 21 years apparently, but they do have a system in place where they can detain someone deemed sane indefinitely as a danger to the public. Most Norwegians I've seen commenting on this think this guy is very unlikely to ever be released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn.man
He's not insane though. I guess that won't stop the government or a court from just saying that he is though.
No, what I'm saying is that from what I understand, unless you are criminally insane, the maximum sentence you can be given in Norway is normally 21 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
However, there is some leeway for certain individuals to be judged sane, but the enormity of their crimes allows for them to be detained indefinitely. So even if this guy is judged sane, it seems likely that he's never going to be released.
I knew what you were saying. Seems to me like the government will be able to do whatever it wants in any country.
Now that his manefesto has been out for a while, its clear to me that he wasn't a "right wing Christian", at least not an any way we would understand that. His "Christian" identity is merely as a cultural one, and not any form of spiritual or religious belief system. I also don't get the "right-wing" charge since he wanted to nationalize business, railed against Capitalism, America and Rupert Murdock.
Here's an interesting post on what he really believed:
http://www.soopermexican.com/2011/07...-conservative/
If I were the father of one of those kids, that asshole would never make it through the front gate of a prison[AR15]Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn.man
When he should be fed into a wood chipper feet first, very slowly.[Rant1]Quote:
Originally Posted by jake
I realize the whole "due process" thing has to be followed, but the brigand/pirate/vigilante portion of my psyche cries out for blood. I find it unlikely that this cretin acted alone, so perhaps before his date with the wood chipper, he should be vigorously interrogated, Mossad style.
I rest my case...[Muaha]Quote:
Originally Posted by Tor Larson
What do you guys know about the party in power that he acted against? Besides what Hannu has already said.
He was fairly wealthy, having around 4 million Krone in bank accounts at one time, which is roughly $750,000. He started a farming company, and bought 6 tons of fertilizer chemicals.Quote:
Originally Posted by SA Friday
From what I read it was a Glock 19 and a Mini 14. But I think he had more than just that alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tor Larson
Sure, its terrible that it happened and the things I'd do to the guy for shooting up a kids camp would make Guantanamo detainees think they've got it good.
But you know what the most fucked up thing about this is? I'm so damn jaded that the fact this happened doesn't anger me, the numbers of innocents dead doesn't surprise me, and the pictures of the memorials brings no emotion out of me. Every day in the news there's something about "X number of people died in attacks on X" that I'm just desensitized to it... I can't be the only one that feels this way. Our world is one fucked up place.
I get philosophical when I drink.
If a Mexican citizen conducted a similar attack on the children of the major drug cartels in their town, would you feel any differently toward the event?
Just curious.
Probably not. How fucked up is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Don't get me wrong... if someone raises a hand to a female or yells at a child out of anger, I'll step in (and have). But the things we hear about in the news... its just become so commonplace that it doesn't hit home anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantar18c
[Roll1] Yell at a child in anger? Give me a break.
Sadly I know the Mexican cartels have done just that. I guess the horrible thing for Norway is the assumption it could not happen there and not by one of their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
I'm reading the article posted in here earlier, and at least it can be said that this guy has some great vocabulary.
"I believe that in order to strengthen the resolve, morale and motivation prior to a martyrdom operation, the Justiciar Knight should be encouraged to embrace and take advantage of a significant reward system designed to increase focus and remove any last doubts."
?Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
I think he was saying children are a handful. Sometimes you must law down the law
Oh I know. You need to be firm and forceful at times. But you must also keep your composure. Getting angry gets you nowhere and sets a bad example for the kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by WellHungSmurf
Nothing like some stranger coming along, trying to fight you to set a better example.
Who said anything about fighting with anybody?
I've seen someone screaming at her kid for asking if he can have ___ (whatever it was he wanted) at the grocery store. I just said "Hey lady, it might work better if you take a deep breath or two and cool off a bit" and left it at that.
Wow, seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
This is nothing at all like that. This was a camp for kids who wanted to get involved in politics. It's the fucking 9/12 project. Not a goddamn camp for cartel children. And even if it was, who the hell says those kids would want to be there?
If you seriously mean that statement, then you are no better than that two faced shithead Glenn Beck.
I dunno. I was raised as an old school gentleman/warrior. Women and children (as long as they're noncombatants) are sacrosanct. As are hospitals and houses of worship. Terrorists that victimize civilians and then try to claim the protections of the conventions of war are NOT "holy warriors", not soldiers, not deserving of respect. They are nothing more than criminals, murderers, and thugs. The lawyer for this joker is now claiming that he is probably insane. My question is: Why should this matter? It's obvious that no SANE individual would have perpetrated these crimes. He's still guilty of 90+ counts of premeditated murder in cold blood. I stand by the previous statement concerning feeding him feet first into a wood chipper, after a Mossad style interview...
I get seriously annoyed by the concept of Not Guilty by reason of Insanity, as if that excuses an atrocity like this. Perhaps we need to consider a verdict of Guilty AND Insane as a possible outcome for a trial.
They keep calling it a "children's summer camp" but the reality is it was more of a political retreat for young adults.
That in no way justifies the shooting, but to call them children at camp is a little dishonest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundfolge
one was 10 years old...
granted that's not all of them but,I would say Kids were there.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_907796.html
and for the people that are all-trusting of Policemen (ie the recent APD incident)Quote:
The Telegraph points out an eyewitness account of Friday's Norway shooting, in which a 10-year-old boy told the gunman, "now you've killed my dad. Let us alone."
Quote:
Al Jazeera also reports that an 18-year-old eyewitness to the killings on Utoya island in Norway said the gunman, who was dressed as a police officer, tricked victims into thinking he was there to help them.
I was just asking. I don't know anything about the people he targeted. I'm under the impression that he attacked a camp that was full of the kids of people who are involved in politics over there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
What is the 9/12 project?
The 9/12 project is the same thing as this, but by Glenn Beck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Sorry. The way I read it this morning, it sounded like you were trying to make a direct comparison.
If you look at his Manifesto and the people he targeted, its actually surprising. He had an impressive understanding of things and he managed to take out all of his "priority" targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
In short, his reasoning is impressive, he just chose the wrong way to act upon it.
+1, what's the 9/12 project?
What a stand up guy you are. I'm sure you improved everyone's lives that day. Did you get a medal for butting in like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantar18c
Did your mom ever yell at you? If some jackass came walking along while your father was yelling at you, and told your dad to "cool off a bit." I bet your dad would have knocked his teeth out.
I don't know why what you said bothered me so much, but it did. It's not even a big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantar18c
Yeah, I was reading that article that was posted on here earlier. It is pretty irritating that he is made out to be some right wing terrorist, when it seems to be exactly the opposite. I'm sorry I snapped at you earlier.
Ooooooon another note, did you guys here that Germany raided something like 20? "right wing extremists" today. They told the media that this in no way had anything to do with the Norway bombing, and that this was the result of an on-going investigation. I don't buy it.
No offense taken Irving [Beer]. To answer your question, my mother has never done anything but yell, scream, criticize, and bitch at me. Never talked to me, only at me. Her and I have never gotten along for a number of reasons, but the way she communicated with me made it so I never wanted to do anything for her.
My father, on the other hand, has yelled at me twice in my life (I remember both, cause it was so unusual). When he needed to be firm and discipline me, he was and did, but he never yelled. When he wanted me to do something or change something, he reasoned with me and made me understand his reasons for what he was asking of me. I rarely disobeyed him.
I've seen both sides of the coin, and can tell you firsthand which one works the best. It also works best with the kids of a few of my family and friends... when they have trouble with them, they call Uncle Mason because their kids listen to me.
Irving (and whoever), check out these posts from the other forum I frequent. I found them pretty interesting...
(My additions in red)
Quote:
I've gone thru the threads here and seen a lot of questions asked, I figured on thread pertaining to the reasoning and mindset was better than a half dozen replies.
Why a youth camp? Two fold-
First was to stop further recruitment into the social labour party movement, many of the camp attendees were up and coming socialists. This wasn't a random youth camp, it was the Social Labour parties youth camp. - http://www.channel4.com/news/norways-lost-leaders
Second the ' modern day mother' of that party was speaking at the camp that day. Brundtland departed the camp shortly before he arrived. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...in-target.html
I don't know who would read all 1500+ pages of the 'manifesto' but skimming the bullet points from pages 38-60 shows he had a excellent understanding of the revisionist history being taught in the west (US and Europe) and threat posed by radical islam.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...hl=en_US&pli=1
I'm not going to waste my time reading this thing but it's quite easy to extrapolate he viewed those who were allowing the muslimazation (or however he termed) of Norway (and the west) were just as guilty are as the jihadists themselves. I haven't even looked to see if there is a summary towards the bottom.
He also shows a huge hatred of socialism and marxism and it's threat to freedom and liberty.
Aside from the sheer number of people he killed, it's staggering the number of 'priority' targets he killed. Aside from Brundtland, he seems to have gotten all of the rest he had targeted.
Interestingly enough, the first page (of the manifesto) is the Cross of St James. (The Cross of St. James is a big thing on the forum this was posted, and can be seen in my avatar pic here. Its also the basis for my next tattoo. St. James is the Patron St. of Spain, and is known as the "Matimoros" (sp) or "moor-slayer," literally meaning the Slayer of Muslims. I've been thinking about posting a thread about it here as I think yall would enjoyy learning about it. The Cross on the manifesto looks slightly different than mine, however they're both crosses of St. James.)
Quote:
The problem I have with A.B.B. (the shooter)is that while his analysis of many of the causal factors to the "decay of western civilization" were absolutely spot-on, his solution strategy is flawed.
In order to have the intimidation factor over an elongated period, he needed at least 4 things:
- A much higher body count
- A greater quality of targets destroyed
- More meaningful collateral impacts (e.g. economic)
- An ability to present a sustained threat to the other side
Islamists have been able to sustain both physical and economic impacts. The West has clung to multi-cultural idealism and labeled Islam the "Religion of Peace". While Al Quaeda's ability to strike has been reduced signficantly, and several plots have been thwarted, they retain the ability to strike in a way that can have material impact.
A.B.B. is one and done and is more likely to engender sympathy for the lefties than inspire others to join his cause.