Dave Ramsey on Debt

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

08-05-2011, 13:49
UberTong

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberTong

I'm gonna derail my own thread here for a minute. I just spoke with my college roommate and he is currently in PA (physicians assitants) school. I asked him how he did on final exams. He said good in everything except "MEDICAL SPANISH". Just gonna go out on a limb and say screw that hard...have at it people, that's bullshit. So not only do illegals come here ILLEGALY, but we are now catering to them.

Second item, I thought this was cool because it would never happen today in our spineless, mangina ridden society.
Today in 1981: President Reagan fired 11k striking federal air-traffic controllers who ignored his order for them to return to work.

//rant over.

Man now we are on taxes, and I tried so hard to derail my own thread. Didn't even get a comment. [BooHoo] No respect I tell ya...[ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]
08-05-2011, 13:53
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberTong

Man now we are on taxes, and I tried so hard to derail my own thread. Didn't even get a comment. [BooHoo] No respect I tell ya...[ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]

When Reagan broke the ATC union it set the tone for the destruction of most all unions and thus the downward slide of the middle class.
08-05-2011, 13:54
Inconel710

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

Today in America we have a REGRESSIVE tax rate. Any one who tells you different does not understand how taxes really work or how a hedge fund manager or investor earns income.

That's why you become an investor! :D
08-05-2011, 13:57
UberTong

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

When Reagan broke the ATC union it set the tone for the destruction of most all unions and thus the downward slide of the middle class.

Give me warning next time you post something like that, I couldn't get my trashcan close enough, just vomited all over. [LOL]

Doing away with unions is the downward slide of the middle class? Unions?
08-05-2011, 14:01
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscwerve

I'll chime in I guess. Disclaimer: I know dick about economics. I think about it and my head hurts.

I do think a flat tax is a good idea. On investment income. That way all investments can be handled the same way. Same as business. the billion dollar company pays the same rate as joe blows bait shop.

Also I think that we need to give incentive for companies to bring manufacturing back to the states. I have been working in manufacturing for about 15 years now and let me tell you it's getting pretty difficult to find jobs. I don't know how to do this, import taxes? Penalties for having manufacturing facilities in other countries? I don't know how to go about that with "free trade".

I think a consumption tax would be a better idea than the income tax system. I go out and buy a $20k vehicle, I pay my (I'm guessing) 20% tax on that, the gov gets its $4k in taxes. Mr. Hedge fund manager goes out and buys a $200k bently, the gov gets its $40k in taxes. He paid more taxes, but same rate. In addition, illeagles make up MILLIONS of people that pay no taxes, yes they send most of the money back home, but while they are here they have to buy things like gas, food, vehicles, etc. Having a consumption tax instead of income tax closes the loop of people working under the table. Doesn't fix the ginormous immigration problem, but gets some money from them.

Like I said, I know just about nothing about economics, I'm a computer geek. Am I wrong to think that something like this would be a good Idea?

At this point a flat tax would be better than the regressive tax system we currently have. It looks like we have a progressive tax system till you realize that the mega earners earn all money through dividends and investing. Those people should not be paying less than a middle class person.

As to bringing back manufacture. I would suggest that people look to one of the founding fathers of this nation. I think we need to return to Alexander Hamilton's 11 point plan on economics and manufacture. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/12/17 Scroll down the page if you don't want to read it word for word from Hamilton.

A consumption tax is the largest form of regressive tax out there. Joe middle class spends all his earnings to survive. But it is impossible for a hedge fund manager to spend 1 billion a year on goods. So what happens is the "effective" tax rate for joe middle class his 100% of his earnings and it the billion dollar hedge fund manager is only subject to taxes on perhaps 1% alone.

For the first 100 years of this nation 90% of all tax revenue came in from import tariffs. We need to return to that model.
08-05-2011, 14:02
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberTong

Give me warning next time you post something like that, I couldn't get my trashcan close enough, just vomited all over. [LOL]

Doing away with unions is the downward slide of the middle class? Unions?

With the rise of unions in the 1940s, so do did the middle class rise out of the poor and working class. As unions have been broken the middle class has started to disappear like today. Historical fact.
08-05-2011, 14:03
Ronin13

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberTong

Give me warning next time you post something like that, I couldn't get my trashcan close enough, just vomited all over. [LOL]

Doing away with unions is the downward slide of the middle class? Unions?

Haha, I about fell over when I read that! I have a few friends I went to high school with and back then they worked at King Soopers. They were actually encouraged to join a union for KS employees... here's the best part, at $8.50/hr the unions were taking something to the effect of 7.5% of their earnings, and that goes in conjunction with all the other withholding like state and fed tax and SS... WTF? Remind me how unions contribute to the betterment of the middle class?
08-05-2011, 14:03
tmleadr03

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

With the rise of unions in the 1940s, so do did the middle class rise out of the poor and working class. As unions have been broken the middle class has started to disappear like today. Historical fact.

Just like the rest of the historic facts you pepper this board with.
08-05-2011, 14:05
UberTong

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

With the rise of unions in the 1940s, so do did the middle class rise out of the poor and working class. As unions have been broken the middle class has started to disappear like today. Historical fact.

Hmm quite a historical fact, where were you educated mr new york and company? So you think Unions are beneficial?
08-05-2011, 14:06
Ranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

For the first 100 years of this nation 90% of all tax revenue came in from import tariffs. We need to return to that model.

To what end Nynco? Would we increase taxes on all imports so that they would then do the same for our exports? This isn't the first 100 years where our imports/exports were nowhere near where they are now nor was our market the driving market of the world nor were we anything more than a small struggling country with just a couple million people. That model can no longer work in a global economy.

And the class warfare that you want to wage, who will that benefit in the end? Raises the taxes on the rich, that's what I keep hearing, yet those "rich" are the ones who create jobs and expand our economy. So we penalize them for what? For being better off than the rest of us, that's what it boils down to. The rich are easy targets, they are the haves and we are the have-nots.

Rubbish.
08-05-2011, 14:07
UberTong

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmleadr03

Just like the rest of the historic facts you pepper this board with.

Ya you can't just stamp 'historical fact' and be done, because that is far from fact. It's like in Talladega Nights when he says "with all due respect", you can't just say whatever you want after that. Just sayin Ricky Bobby, just sayin.
08-05-2011, 14:08
jscwerve

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

A consumption tax is the largest form of regressive tax out there. Joe middle class spends all his earnings to survive. But it is impossible for a hedge fund manager to spend 1 billion a year on goods. So what happens is the "effective" tax rate for joe middle class his 100% of his earnings and it the billion dollar hedge fund manager is only subject to taxes on perhaps 1% alone.

Doesn't that mean that the hedge fund manager would be reinvesting his excess? Either for business (creating jobs etc), or personal? The first part of my post was about taxing investment income and businesses. The consumption tax for goods, the business and investment income taxed otherwise.

Again, economics hurts my head, but I'm trying to get a grasp on it.
08-05-2011, 14:08
cstone

It may be REGRESSIVE for the portion of the populous that pays taxes, but what is it for the percentage that pays no federal taxes?

Many people do not realize that if they have payroll taxes withheld all year long, then get every penny of it back at the end of the year, they are actually not paying any federal tax at all.

Does anyone have a good source for the actual percentage of the citizenry that actually pays any net federal payroll taxes?

Tax reform is absolutely essential, if for no other reason, to restore some sense of faith to the citizens that they can understand where the money comes from and can relate that to where it is spent.

The revenue issue of ~18% of GDP is a historical issue that seems to be pretty well documented. If the government would like to spend more than it does now, then it seems the best way to do that would be to grow the GDP. Does the GDP grow with more government regulation or less government regulation?
08-05-2011, 14:09
tmleadr03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger

To what end Nynco? Would we increase taxes on all imports so that they would then do the same for our exports? This isn't the first 100 years where our imports/exports were nowhere near where they are now nor was our market the driving market of the world nor were we anything more than a small struggling country with just a couple million people. That model can no longer work in a global economy.

And the class warfare that you want to wage, who will that benefit in the end? Raises the taxes on the rich, that's what I keep hearing, yet those "rich" are the ones who create jobs and expand our economy. So we penalize them for what? For being better off than the rest of us, that's what it boils down to. The rich are easy targets, they are the haves and we are the have-nots.

Rubbish.

Bullshit Smoot-Hawley worked wonders for our country. We need to get back to that right now.
08-05-2011, 14:10
two shoes

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

With the rise of unions in the 1940s, so do did the middle class rise out of the poor and working class. As unions have been broken the middle class has started to disappear like today. Historical fact.

Having worked in NY at JFK airport, where a job that would have taken me 8 hours took 3 days, I have no use for the "modern" union. I had to direct their people on how to do my job. Between the coffee, lunch and smoke breaks, we only got in about 4 hours of work each day.

The 'unions' are stronger than ever each place I have been. Only one time when the company was loosing huge amounts of money and the plant was at risk of closing did they ever say "go ahead and do it yourself, we need to get this unit back up and running" Sit around and wait.

I understand the need for unions back in Upton Sinclair's days, but everywhere I have been, the union's only function was to protect the people that should have been fired. They promote laziness and working of the system.
08-05-2011, 14:10
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger

To what end Nynco? Would we increase taxes on all imports so that they would then do the same for our exports? This isn't the first 100 years where our imports/exports were nowhere near where they are now nor was our market the driving market of the world nor were we anything more than a small struggling country with just a couple million people. That model can no longer work in a global economy.

And the class warfare that you want to wage, who will that benefit in the end? Raises the taxes on the rich, that's what I keep hearing, yet those "rich" are the ones who create jobs and expand our economy. So we penalize them for what? For being better off than the rest of us, that's what it boils down to. The rich are easy targets, they are the haves and we are the have-nots.

Rubbish.

Please tell me how it is class warfare to want a flat tax on all earnings regardless of labor or investment source? Its class warfare to argue that investors should not pay taxes on income like a worker.

As to the amount of trade... yes there is more trade now. But there was a lot more trade back then too than you realize. Shipping has improved. But the relation of society size to trade back then was very high too. Why do you think we fought the revolution? Mainly because of economics. The crown had reverse tariffs on the colonies. We were by law not allowed to manufacture.
08-05-2011, 14:12
nynco

Now before you all pile on me. I think there needs to be union reform. I don't want to abolish unions. I think they are needed as a check and balance.
08-05-2011, 14:14
UberTong

Quote:

Originally Posted by two shoes

They promote laziness and working of the system.

+ a lot.
08-05-2011, 14:22
UberTong

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

Now before you all pile on me. I think there needs to be union reform. I don't want to abolish unions. I think they are needed as a check and balance.

What the hell do they keep balanced and checked? They promote laziness, a big shield for what is all too uncommon today, the dreaded lazy victim.
08-05-2011, 14:25
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberTong

What the hell do they keep balanced and checked? They promote laziness, a big shield for what is all too uncommon today, the dreaded lazy victim.

Well then think about how to reform them. Because they do play a positive roll too.
08-05-2011, 14:26
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmleadr03

Bullshit Smoot-Hawley worked wonders for our country. We need to get back to that right now.

Smoot Hawley was 20 years too late and it was not the cause of the depression. If anything, it lightened the fall. As to tariffs being bad, well, why were the founders of this nation so in favor of them?
08-05-2011, 14:28
tmleadr03

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

Smoot Hawley was 20 years too late and it was not the cause of the depression. If anything, it lightened the fall. As to tariffs being bad, well, why were the founders of this nation so in favor of them?

[Bang]
08-05-2011, 14:29
Ronin13

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

Smoot Hawley was 20 years too late and it was not the cause of the depression. If anything, it lightened the fall. As to tariffs being bad, well, why were the founders of this nation so in favor of them?

Again, you're jumping back to a time where tariffs were necessary- like Ranger said, it doesn't work that way in the modern times. 1780's to 2000's... big f*cking difference.
08-05-2011, 14:33
nynco

Tariffs are always necessary. Regardless of time in history.
08-05-2011, 14:37
UberTong

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

Tariffs are always necessary. Regardless of time in history.

Historical fact. Look it up fellas. [LOL]

[Beer]
08-05-2011, 14:37
Ranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmleadr03

Bullshit Smoot-Hawley worked wonders for our country. We need to get back to that right now.

Uh-huh........ Let's do THAT.
08-05-2011, 14:41
UberTong

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

Well then think about how to reform them. Because they do play a positive roll too.

I'm sorry, did I cut you off? "They play a positive role too" ... which is?
08-05-2011, 14:43
tmleadr03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger

Uh-huh........ Let's do THAT.

This thread has me [Rant2] at my computer. I need to stop.
08-05-2011, 14:45
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmleadr03

This thread has me [Rant2] at my computer. I need to stop.

You need to learn how to control you anger. Its not healthy. I am not trying to be a dick either.
08-05-2011, 14:47
tmleadr03

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

You need to learn how to control you anger. Its not healthy. I am not trying to be a dick either.

You need to learn how to control your ignorance. It's not healthy. I am not trying to be a dick though.
08-05-2011, 14:48
UberTong

Haha good exchange there.
[Pop]
08-05-2011, 14:52
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmleadr03

You need to learn how to control your ignorance. It's not healthy. I am not trying to be a dick though.

[ROFL1][Beer]
08-05-2011, 16:18
hollohas

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberTong

I'm sorry, did I cut you off? "They play a positive role too" ... which is?

I'll jump in because I'm still waiting for nynco to answer the question too...What's the positive role of unions TODAY?
08-05-2011, 16:23
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollohas

I'll jump in because I'm still waiting for nynco to answer the question too...What's the positive role of unions TODAY?

Protecting middle class wages, keeping working conditions safe, ensuring that people are retrained rather than fired, negotiating for healthcare benefits.... and many more.

United we stand, divided we fall. I am not in a union never have been. But I see that there needs to be a balance and unions serve as a check on the abuses.
08-05-2011, 16:43
Ranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

But I see that there needs to be a balance and unions USED TO serve as a check on the abuses.

Corrected for my point. Unions served a point when government regulations were loose, before wages were regulated and when working conditions were deplorable. That day is gone. If Kathy Lee can't run a sweat house in Malaysia without getting stoned to death then it's going to be damn difficult to run one right here. Unions were great, once, now they are serve very little purpose but to serve themselves.
08-05-2011, 16:46
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger

Corrected for my point. Unions served a point when government regulations were loose, before wages were regulated and when working conditions were deplorable. That day is gone. If Kathy Lee can't run a sweat house in Malaysia without getting stoned to death then it's going to be damn difficult to run one right here. Unions were great, once, now they are serve very little purpose but to serve themselves.

As the unions have waned all of those things have weakened. So apparently the elimination of them is causing an effect. Take them away completely and you can be sure that the corporations will buy our congress into weakening those laws more.
08-05-2011, 16:51
Ranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

As the unions have waned all of those things have weakened. So apparently the elimination of them is causing an effect. Take them away completely and you can be sure that the corporations will buy our congress into weakening those laws more.

Sorry, I can't agree with that. Unions brought these to our attention - these were the jobs that "those folks" had, now it's quite different and reverting back to that time couldn't happen. Where unions had the voice then, we have the voice and knowledge to do something about it. Think about it, if you can't have a smoke within 50 feet of a buildings entrance because some waitress at Hooters got watery eyes, what makes you think that an employer will get away with anything these days?
08-05-2011, 16:54
nynco

They are getting away with lowering wages and eliminating healthcare benefits today. Right now, today... your premise that it will not happen is proving wrong right now.
08-05-2011, 16:59
jscwerve

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

As the unions have waned all of those things have weakened. So apparently the elimination of them is causing an effect. Take them away completely and you can be sure that the corporations will buy our congress into weakening those laws more.

Wow. Unions brought us things like OSHA, MSHA, and dozens of other regulatory agencies that protect the worker. The unions were needed in there time to bring these things into the public. They are not needed anymore. Now I am in manufacturing and have been for a long time. I have seen first hand what unions can do to cripple a company. Been to Detroit lately?
08-05-2011, 17:05
jscwerve

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

They are getting away with lowering wages and eliminating healthcare benefits today. Right now, today... your premise that it will not happen is proving wrong right now.

What companies are these that you say have lowered wages? Companies will lower wages through turnover by hiring new employees at lower rates yes, but lowering wages on it's employees, but outright lowering I have not seen. I may be wrong of course, just haven't seen it. Now if I get canned from my job and there is someone willing to do my job for lower pay, that is their responsibility. Just because I want $50/hr to shovel elephant shit at the carnival doesn't mean that should be the going rate for elephant shit shovelers, if they can find someone to do it for $8/hr, more power to them.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page