Buying American is it really worth it?

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

If I can, I buy products from US companies, with US workers with US sourced materials. If I can buy from a Colorado company, all the better. When we started Carbon Arms, we had some tough decisions to make. But, everything we produce is US made by US citizens with US materials. It costs more, but that is how we roll.

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I do that when I can -- or at least try to avoid buying from Commie countries (yes, I refuse to buy Russian or Chinese ammo or guns) -- but it's often difficult even when you're willing to pay more. I've found a good source for dress shoes for work -- and it really doesn't cost much more than buying Chicom-made shoes at Macy's or Dillard's or what have you -- but try to find quality tents or backpacks made in the U.S. It's often hard to find stuff made in the US even if you were willing to give a little up on quality.

Stossel is against "Buy Local" as he thinks buying the best-made or least expensive puts pressure on local manufacturers to up their game and I agree with him to a point but I'm still willing to pay a little more for equal quality made locally versus Chicom slave labor. A lot of times it really comes down to the specific product(s) and manufacturing practices as I'd rather not subsidize the AFL-CIO's destruction of the American economy either.

I agree Aloha_Shooter.

Car Batteries for instance...I only buy US Made Spirocell designs...better quality, twice the price, no kids in India died in the making of my battery.

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

Car Batteries for instance...I only buy US Made Spirocell designs...better quality, twice the price, no kids in India died in the making of my battery.

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List the American-made brands for the rest of us. Is Optima (expensive) one of them? How about the ones you get at Autozone (Duralast)?

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Originally Posted by kidicarus13

I will never buy a vehicle based on sympathy or patriotism. I will always buy based on what best fits my current needs.

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[Beer]


My thoughts exactly. If there's a better productfor less money than an American product, then that's what I'm going to buy. That's the essence of capitalism. If all Americans bought the best product instead of buying based on the feelings of being a patriot, American products would come down in price and would become higher quality. If that's what you do then that's just fine, but don't look down on others for buying otherwise.

delete

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

you cant compare a full size truck to a little jap car COFI. of course the truck is going to wear first. it is 3 times the weight and isnt used for driving to starbucks only.


i have a 94 f350 crew cab 4x4. it had 208,000 miles of hard pulling and work before it needed anything but brakes and oil changes. I have a 1995 E350 15 passenger van, and it also runs great and has needed nothing but 1 set of brakes and oil changes. I have a 2003 ranger that I also bought new. It has 145,000 miles on it. and it has never needed anything. I did replace the clutch and brakes a few months ago. But, they were actually still in perfect shape (amazingly) but, since I had everything disassembled, I replaced them anyway. That truck gets used like a full sized truck.

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Exactly, comparing a 2k lb car to a 5k lb truck is not right, the truck is meant for pulling, towing, hauling, there are more drivetrain parts in a 4x4 truck vs a FWD car. Their will be more maintenance and repairs. The heaviest thing a honda carries is a lesbian to star bucks! My Chevy CO has 40k on it and hasnt even had an oil change in 20k.

2007 Silverado 4X4. Last week I left the GPS on overnight and it was very cold, killed the battery. So I tried to start it but the motor barely turned over. Put the charger on the battery, let it charge. Then go to start it, but the door locks, overhead lights etc. don't work. It won't start! I replace the battery with an Optima. Still no start. I google the truck forums and folks say the (BCM) body control module is shot. I call on the OnStar for a free tow to the dealer. I tell the service manager at dealer truck is on its way. The next day I get the truck, $563. $200 for labor and programming the module, 300 bucks for the module. Optima I bought from Sams club won't fit due to angled ground battery clamp. I got the right battery from Batteries Plus for $170 plus tax. If I had the money I'd buy this First Gen Dodge....

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3557669953.html

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

Loyalty, Patriotism and Ethics are long gone when it comes how people choose to live, much less their purchasing decisions. The VAST majority of people, Americans included, do what they "feel" is best for them. Yes, it is often selfish, short sighted and hollow, but that is the Amreica we now live in.

If I can, I buy products from US companies, with US workers with US sourced materials. If I can buy from a Colorado company, all the better. When we started Carbon Arms, we had some tough decisions to make. But, everything we produce is US made by US citizens with US materials. It costs more, but that is how we roll.

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There is no incentive for those companies on the bottom to improve their price and/or product if their company can stay afloat because of people buying with their heart and not using reason in their decision making process. The same reason we continue to see more Americans taking handouts, there is no incentive to be self-supporting when the gov't gives able bodied persons things they could otherwise work for. American companies are entitiled to NOTHING, they need to be competitive if they want to survive. If in the long run if that means American's standard of living has to go down than so be it.

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Originally Posted by Ghosty

List the American-made brands for the rest of us. Is Optima (expensive) one of them? How about the ones you get at Autozone (Duralast)?

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Optima (CO origins) is one and I think still holds some patents. Exide has one now and there are a few others under license. They are safer to make in the first place, but they also are high tech enough that kids in huts in India can't make them. I use Optimas.

I don't understand all the hate about shopping at WalMart. I mean, for most of us, it's about getting the most for your bucks, and being able to get nearly everything you need in one stop is great. Between me and the wife, we usually only go to WalMart, King Soopers, PetSmart and sometimes Target.

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Originally Posted by kidicarus13

There is no incentive for those companies on the bottom to improve their price and/or product if their company can stay afloat because of people buying with their heart and not using reason in their decision making process. The same reason we continue to see more Americans taking handouts, there is no incentive to be self-supporting when the gov't gives able bodied persons things they could otherwise work for. American companies are entitiled to NOTHING, they need to be competitive if they want to survive. If in the long run if that means American's standard of living has to go down than so be it.

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Incentive, oh yes there is. At the end, all you have is your word and your integrity. I do it because it is right and that is how I want my kids to live too. There is no such thing as a man on an island. Everytihng we do and say has a consequence. Most are just so self involved they can't see the repercussions.

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

see what happens when you buy non American made?



Barack Obama.

They could have bought a natural born American, but they opted to buy foreign.

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Can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic...

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Originally Posted by PugnacAutMortem

Can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic...

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My money says he's serious. Sumbitch ain't no American, that's for sure.

My preference is of course for Eurotrash cars, but lets not kid ourselves they all brake down. If they didn't then you wouldn't have any mechanics for any of the brands. There isn't a single brand out there that does not have some issues.

I personally just like the issue associated with German cars over Domestic and Asian.

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Originally Posted by rondog

I don't understand all the hate about shopping at WalMart. I mean, for most of us, it's about getting the most for your bucks, and being able to get nearly everything you need in one stop is great. Between me and the wife, we usually only go to WalMart, King Soopers, PetSmart and sometimes Target.

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If you ever had your own business you would know why. It's impossible for little guys to compete with chinamart. Why do you think there are so many empty store fronts in America I'm sure chinamart has a large percentage to do with it. I always will spend a little extra to shop local.

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Originally Posted by rondog

My money says he's serious. Sumbitch ain't no American, that's for sure.

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I should have been more specific. I agree with that part, I just couldn't tell if the first sentence was serious or sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by BushMasterBoy

If I had the money I'd buy this First Gen Dodge....

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3557669953.html

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That's a sweet truck! You know the guy who is selling it is redneck as hell, he's got a Mossy Oak seatbelt pad and a Mossy Oak seat cover... but he's asking a bit much for that old of a Cummins.

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Originally Posted by tmleadr03

My preference is of course for Eurotrash cars, but lets not kid ourselves they all brake down. If they didn't then you wouldn't have any mechanics for any of the brands. There isn't a single brand out there that does not have some issues.

I personally just like the issue associated with German cars over Domestic and Asian.

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I agree! I have only had a few issues with my BMW, one was a fuel pump (costly, but hey, they go out), the other my CV boots were torn (not that costly thanks to RockAuto). Other than that, it runs great, has over 80K on it, and gives me everything I want in a car- except ground clearance, but for that I have a Dodge Ram. [Beer]

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

That's a sweet truck! You know the guy who is selling it is redneck as hell, he's got a Mossy Oak seatbelt pad and a Mossy Oak seat cover... but he's asking a bit much for that old of a Cummins.

I agree! I have only had a few issues with my BMW, one was a fuel pump (costly, but hey, they go out), the other my CV boots were torn (not that costly thanks to RockAuto). Other than that, it runs great, has over 80K on it, and gives me everything I want in a car- except ground clearance, but for that I have a Dodge Ram. [Beer]

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that is actually not a bad price for that truck, there is a huge following and love for those trucks including myself, and the value has shot way up in the last few years. I got mine 6 years ago for $2800 and its probly worth 5 to 6k now. Now almost everybody in my family has a cummins 12valve after they seen what mine could do. first gens are kinda like the 69 camaro or the 70 cuda of the diesel world everybody wants one so they can have a little diesel hotrod

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Originally Posted by soldier-of-the-apocalypse

that is actually not a bad price for that truck, there is a huge following and love for those trucks including myself, and the value has shot way up in the last few years. I got mine 6 years ago for $2800 and its probly worth 5 to 6k now. Now almost everybody in my family has a cummins 12valve after they seen what mine could do. first gens are kinda like the 69 camaro or the 70 cuda of the diesel world everybody wants one so they can have a little diesel hotrod

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True, but I was thinking maybe $6500 for it, not practically $9K... My buddy bought a 1998 2500 Cummins last year for $10,000... but he bought it from an older gent that rarely drove it, so it had low miles.

In 98 they had a 12v and it was the best 12v made because it had 235 hp instead of 180hp rated and it had the updated interior with rear doors and it is very rare truck since its half year only my dad bought one like 3 years ago for 10k and with the upgrades he did it should be worth 17k today. But 1998 was also the first year of the 24v and they are known to be problematic and there is alot of them so the value is not as great so if your buddy got a 98 12v he got a good deal but if he got a 24v he probly paid a little too much IMO. the 24v is ok if you do some upgrades though the liftpump has to be replaced with a air dog or a fass fuel pump and the trannys have problems standard and auto

If we're talking only about cars I would only buy American if I were buying a Ford. Unfortunately the Explorer doesn't compare well to the 4Runner so it's not even on my radar but if that Ford Atlas concept becomes reality I would be real happy to buy a pickup and that would be the only one to consider.

Anything besides cars, I do my best to buy American and I'm fine with paying a little more to do it. GoRuck bags are the absolute shit and they've got a brand and quality I'm happy to support.

What have you read/heard about the new Explorer? Yes, that Atlas concept is badass.

The newest Explorer is much more of a crossover while the 4Runner is a body on frame SUV.

The Explorer compares a lot better to a Highlander. It's a nice ride but not what I'm in the market for.

You don't like the raptor or the dodge ridge runner if you get a Toyota make sure you get the turd package

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Originally Posted by soldier-of-the-apocalypse

You don't like the raptor or the dodge ridge runner if you get a Toyota make sure you get the turd package

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Hate the Dodge and I would never want the raptor to be my daily driver.

I had a Chevy for 5 years. On my engine it said Parts Made in America, Assembled in Mexico. So I have no loyalty to car companies anyone since a machine makes the parts, then shipped else where to be assembled.

optimas are hencho en mexico and totally crap now

My Toyotas and my Suzuki bike run. Period.

My Chevrolets never did worth a damn.

Besides, I boycott anything that says UAW.

I will buy American no matter what!! Pathetic excuses (to buy foreign) is all I see!! Even if the car is a pig.......... I don't care. AMERICAN it is! I will buy two American cars to every 1 of your foreign [fag] jobs GLADLY and will gladly put in twice the gas too!!


But then again I love every thing AMERICAN!!

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Originally Posted by bogman2121

Hate the Dodge and I would never want the raptor to be my daily driver.

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Can't wait to "DAILY DRIVE" the Raptor......

Gotta love NAFTA...

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Originally Posted by 10mm-man

I will buy American no matter what, pathetic excuses (to buy foreign) is all I see!! Even if the car is a pig.......... I don't care. AMERICAN it is! I will buy two American cars to every 1 of your foreign [fag] jobs GLADLY and will gladly put in twice the gas too!!


But then again I love every thing AMERICAN!!

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Way to go I like your attitude at one point I had a 460 ford a hemi jeep a 4.6 v8 crown Vic and a 403 trans am all American v8 power at the same time Attachment 20017

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Originally Posted by Haroldlutsen

Way to go I like your attitude at one point I had a 460 ford a hemi jeep a 4.6 v8 crown Vic and a 403 trans am all American v8 power at the same time Attachment 20017

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I love the T.A.! Split t-tops were the shit! I had a girlfriend in N.C that used to drive one around, with a sawed off shotty under the seat, crazy chick! That 460 is a BEAST! I had the 1994 T.A., Numerous F-150's, Chevy's, Dodge, can't beat American HORSE POWER!

I've been a Chevy guy forever. I looked at the products they were making and had to pass. I looked around at other US manufacturers and didn't like what I saw for the money.

I ended up getting a 2012 Hyundai Azera and it's the nicest car I've ever owned.
http://www.billdodgeautogroup.com/bl...zera-maine.jpg
293 HP V6 and got over 30mpg on a trip from WA state to CO via Montana.

What is the direct benefit of buying American vehicles?
Specifically, who exactly do you imagine you are benefiting by purchasing American?

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Originally Posted by Irving

What is the direct benefit of buying American vehicles?
Specifically, who exactly do you imagine you are benefiting by purchasing American?

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Applicable word.

Simple answer. No.

You should always buy the best of something that you can afford and not pay much attention to where it is made. I was always raised to buy the cheapest product available, needless to say I like my parents was always replacing shit. Several years ago I met a very wise man and the first lesson he taught me was "Poor people can not afford to buy cheap stuff." I've never forgot those words and in keeping to them I've found that my money goes a whole lot further these days.

I guess what I'm getting at is that when you are purchasing a product, the value you get for your money should be the primary concern. If money going to "America" is the most important thing, then skip all the bullshit and start stroking off checks to the US government. Whether your dollars go to company CEO A or company CEO B, probably has less of an effect on "America" than you imagine that it does.

For the record, I prefer to buy American products when they are the best that I can afford. I am also a recent subscriber to buy once, cry once, and don't always follow that creed as much as I should. I don't like to buy Chinese because a lot of the products I personally have experience from China are made cheaply and fall apart (shoes).

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Originally Posted by Irving

Specifically, who exactly do you imagine you are benefiting by purchasing American?

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I am AMERICAN buddy! It's all about ME! So I would be benefiting me! Riding around in my AMERICAN made car, pissing off all the tree loving, earth saving, foreign car loven [fags]...... [Beer]

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Originally Posted by 10mm-man

I am AMERICAN buddy! It's all about ME! So I would be benefiting me! Riding around in my AMERICAN made car, pissing off all the tree loving, earth saving, foreign car loven [fags]...... [Beer]

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I think you're mostly being sarcastic, but in case you aren't, I asked because I'm curious who is actually benefited by buying American. I'm also curious who people think they are helping.
For example, I doubt buying American improves roads, lowers gas prices, or increases education. I'm sure an argument could be made that it increases the value of the dollar in some way. Otherwise, giving money to a company, is not the same as giving money to a country. If people are mostly concerned with helping an American keep a job, that is fine, but the origin country of the company doesn't matter as long as an American employee is involved.

To be clear, it doesn't matter if profits go to a company in China or a company in the US, because you can't control where those people or companies spend that money anyway. What good does it to buy Ford, if all the Ford CEOs are spending their money on BMW's?

It's not a clear cut issue, which is my point.