Never Point Out Idiots ?
Never Point Out Idiots ?
Be polite, be courteous, be firm, do not consent. Another right that must be exercised to be strong. My own experience was worth the the $65.00 fine I paid for a ticket that I may have still have had to pay even if I had consented to search. State Patrolman was not happy about my refusal, he seemed a bit surprised, but not an ass about it.
Be "torn" about it all you want. He wasn't a "known criminal"...at least to me. That's kinda the point, isn't it? In case you missed it, I didn't arrest the guy because he had a large amount of cash and was averse to keeping his money in a bank. As a matter of fact, I simply stated he had a lot of cash. I never asked why. He offered why he had it and his explanation obviously didn't make sense. I arrested him because he didn't have proof the car he was driving was insured. That's a misdemeanor in this state despite the fact you think it's "shady" or an "abuse" of authority. I then developed a case based on what I observed and found in his car. Then I articulated my findings in a report and a warrantless arrest affidavit. A judge reviewed and approved the warrantless arrest, investigators followed up and filed the case with the DA, the DA thought it was a solid case and charged the guy, a judge found reason to hold him for trial and a jury convicted him. Neither the investigators that filed the case, the DA, the judge or the jury ever said anything I did was "shady". The only person who had a problem with it, besides you, was the guy's lawyer. Go figure. It wasn't some "bullshit" as you so eloquently state. And how is a valid arrest an abuse of authority?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelhund
Oh,yeah. None of the burglary victims thought what I did was shady or an abuse of my authority, either. As a matter of fact, they were really happy to get at least some of their stuff back...including the cash that turned out to have been stolen from the home of an elderly man.
Maybe it's just me but I'm pretty sure if he had been a small business owner he could've easily said so and wouldn't have had a problem explaining why he had the cash. I'm guessing if he'd been some small business owner he wouldn't have to make up some ridiculous story about going to rent an appt at 0230 in the morning. That may be common behavior in your world, it's not in mine. Or maybe reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits.
Since you're such a goddamned authority on investigative techniques why don't you explain what, exactly, was shady or abusive and how you would've handled the situation?
Good stop, good investigation work, good arrest. Let the cop bashing begin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
Surprised there hasn't been more. Sounds like BG has put out some good info but some just don't get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
As far as carrying during hunting, hunter friends who have had contact with game wardens have been reminded about the details of open v.s. concealed carry.
HA!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jim
I thought about that being the explanation of the acronym ... but then I wondered why I had never been arrested FOR That... so I figured that could not be right LOL
The story was meant to simply be an illustration of one of many ways a car can be legally searched without a warrant, nothing more. I'm surprised the conversation lasted as long as it did before the idiot-fest began.Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
Doesn't surprise me. Oftentimes, LEOs are the worst people to ask about gun laws and they're the ones who need to be reminded of what the law actaully says:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Pook
18-12-214
(3) (a) A person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed:
(II) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is legally engaged in hunting activities within the state.
I can see this rule coming about because hunters wear heavy coats and it would be near impossible to not conceal. Combined with being out in BFE carrying a long arm the handgun is not an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
now that's what I call a common sense gun law. :)
For what its worth, I think you did some outstanding street work on that stop, Carl.
I read Carl's post, and while I'm no expert, it didn't seem the least bit "shady"...
I think you did a fine job (not that you need my approval) [Flower]
The driver voluntarily gave up his 5th rights when he volunteered information about the cash... That is when his real trouble started.
(Well it really started when he decided to start burglarizing homes, but during the stop, he was stuck after that.)
Bottom line, don't lie to police- if you find yourself tempted, use the 5th instead.
Disclaimer: I'm not lawyer, get your own for legal advice...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Charger
No 5th ,it's a traffic stop Not a trial. You say minimal outside of DL, reg ins card. Polite chat, weather, time of day. Once you talk outside the box, anything you say that "isn't right" by LE standards. raises Flags. BG's stop, the guy raised numerous flags you could drive a car through. A suspect is fairly easy to see through once you've been around them. They are also uneasy around LE's it's that prison mentality, avoiding eye contact, looking at their feet, fidgity etc.
I hate a thief, and I'm glad you caught him. Thanks for your service.
Watch this over an over until you have memorized every line.
They don't have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMBD2112
Bailey Guns, excellent extended example of how things work re: traffic stops and searches. Search incident to arrest is the cleanest since you don't have to have probable cause for the search itself, just the arrest. And NPOI for the arrest? Oooooooo, that's genius.
Thanks for the clarification.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
1) Bailey you ass! It took me 6 more weeks to rent that apartment!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
2) By definition, fishing IS hunting. Is fishing the same as hunting according to Colorado State Statutes though?
Yes he did. I couldn't do that job.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneGuy67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
Excellent job Bailey. I'm not a cop, but I think you absolutely read the situation well and made the right call.
I'm generally of the opinion that if you're not a dick or up to no good, things will generally turn out well. I've been pulled over with a shit-ton of weapons/ammo/tannerite lying in the back, had encounters with USFS & BLM rangers who probably thought we were at war, and none of those resulted in anything bad happening, aside from maybe a few tense moments at first...probably because I wasn't being a dick or up to no good.
I was not aware our 5th amendment rights only applied to courtrooms... [Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by jim
My point is, you have the right to remain silent, and not incriminate yourself even if you're NOT under arrest... Use it. Lying is worse than shutting up... Even if you have " nothing to hide"
This is useful if you do not consent to a search and they actually jump through the hoops for the paperwork to legally search your vehicle. You are required to open the trunk, but not required to open a locked box in the trunk unless it is in the paperwork, granted the officer could possibly still have exigent circumstances on their side to open the locked box etc. If a judge signed off on a search warrant on your vehicle, they already had some sort of probable cause other then "the guy said no."Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperiorDG
As with the earlier examples, this is only applicable if you don't have anything visible in the car to give additional reasons to think you are up to something shady. Moral of the story, keep your car clean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraven251
If there is a search warrant you don't have to be and probably won't be near your car. It will be sealed and impounded until the warrant is approved, most likely.
I'll say first off- well done Carl, that's how you go about with LE... Tuefelhund, you are aware that many criminals are caught by simple, hard police work and happenstance, right? Many times criminals slip up and are caught by your run of the mill patrolman instead of some made-for-TV style investigative lead up where a SWAT team breaks down their door... It's usually when they're driving along and do something illegal and get pulled over.
I've been in one situation where I was asked for consent to search the vehicle- of course I said "I do not consent to any search." I received a stern "You're obviously hiding something" remark that led to a supervisor being called in to the traffic stop. The fact that the supervisor was a friend of mine is irrelevant, but I received no citation, there was no search, and the 40min traffic stop concluded with an apology by said supervisor. To this day I harbor no ill will toward the young deputy who tried to figure out a way to illegally search my vehicle (I blame it on cockiness and ignorance of that particular law- not exactly circumstances that make him 'bad').
This isn't necessarily true. It depends on how the warrant is written and what items of contraband are named in the warrant.Quote:
Originally Posted by kraven251
I loved hearing my buddies son- who's now a defense attorney (but former LEO) in AL- say "It would be very illegal to search through your underwear drawer when the warrant was obtained because of suspicion that you stole a television." [LOL]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
I'd be interested in takes on that. Also, since the law states hunting activities.......if you possessed a valid hunting license and were outdoors/outside city limits wouldn't stating that you were hunting, tracking, practicing shooting for hunting season, hiking to stay fit for hunting season, etc. make legal arguments in case your jacket or shirt "concealed" your sidearm? I've never been hassled for having a firearm or knife on me outside the city, personally......but I'm sure it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
if the cops want to search your car without a warrant or any RAS or PC , all they have to do is get permission from a DOG
Many of you are OK with that. so *shrug*
I used to travel for a living in a F-150 and over the eight years of doing this in many states I learned this:
1) Obey all traffic laws, never speed and never, ever roll a stop.
2) Keep your vehicle in proper repair, never a light out or any loose items in the bed, etc..
3) When pulled over for ANY reason, BS or not, have your documentation ready and keep both hands on the steering wheel when the officer walks up.
4) If stopped at night, interior lights are on and weather permitting in any stop, window(s) rolled down.
Observing these simple rules and always being polite and respectful (Yes Sir, No Sir) has never at any time turned into a situation or a request to search my vehicle. Most of the time (four out of five of them) I was let off with a warning and a "thank you for your concern for officer safety".
TEA
III
Whereas I have had very different results. Did you know that WY plates in southern CA is gonna get you pulled over and they are gonna ask you about guns? Your guidelines cannot hurt and in many cases will help but are not a blanket protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by wctriumph
I drive a modified and lowered coupe with TX plates in southern CA. Would be highly illegal if I were registered in Cali because of exhaust modifications. Never had an issue or asked about guns for the past 3.5+ years. Doesn't mean someone has wont, but it has just been my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by merl
Yes, in CA you will ALWAYS be asked, "do you have any weapons or drugs in the vehicle or on your person". That is the first thing that they ask after you give them your documentation.Quote:
Originally Posted by merl
Only time I was searched was when I was 20 and a passenger in another friends car. They (LACS) pulled us over for a tail light out (it wasn't) and when my friend protested they got us out of the car and patted us down, found nothing and asked to search the car. My friend said no and the deputy punched him in the gut and then out of nowhere the second deputy pinned me to the car trunk and both of us were handcuffed and made to lay on our stomachs on Lincoln Blvd while they tore the car apart. They did not find anything because we did not have anything to find. We did not break any laws and no citations were given. I still have the remnants of a scar on my left wrist where the cuffs cut me. When my friend's father went to the sheriff's office to make a complaint, they told him that there was no record of the stop on file and therefore it never happened. They told him that his son should not such a smart ass next time he was pulled over for a traffic violation.
I never trusted a so cal police officer again and discontinued my attempt to become a LEO, it would have severely corrupted my morals to join the LAPD or LACS back in 1975. Just my story from way back then. Today I just don't have any issues and I a few friends that are LEO. Things have changed for the better in my opinion regarding the street officer. I don't trust the command though, too many political loyalties to be overcome it seems in many locations across this great country.
TEA
III
I found through the years working with LEOs as well as a few traffic violations, that contact is what you make of it. LEOs deal with the scum of the earth on a daily basis and they are put in harm’s way regularly so they respond as all humans do when they are put on alert. If you are acting suspicious, uncooperative, or confrontational, then you advance their alert level and you must be prepared to deal with that. Additionally, like in Carl’s case, they are trained to investigate. If contact seems suspicious, they look into it. It makes perfect sense that Carl pushed on this traffic stop; it was suspicious. I’ve had lights out on my cars/trailer several times, I never get pulled over unless it is after midnight, and then I get pulled over for them to determine if there is something else wrong; I have never received a ticket. Is it their fault for pulling me over for something stupid…no, it is my fault for not fixing my damn light. As far as the car, use common sense, know the laws, and don’t break them if you don’t want to deal with the consequences. There are many times that I want to go shooting after work, but I don’t bring my AR downtown with me because I know what will happen if for some unknown reason I get caught with it. The issue isn’t whether they can look in my car or not; the issue for me is the hassle and cost if I get caught with something where I know there will be a problem. Because of their policies, I won’t spend money there and support their economy. Hopefully, at some point, I won’t have to work their either. I understand that much of this is based on principal, but LEOs have a difficult job and I consider groups like the Sierra Club, our legislative bodies, and the gun control groups to be a far bigger threat to my liberties than LEOs doing their job.
varmit season is year round. Squirrels and rabbits and coyotes are everywhere. As long as you're in an area that you could hunt youre coveredQuote:
Originally Posted by GunsRBadMMMMKay
For rvs ive found that they have to bee hooked up to facilities to be considered a home
That may have not been the intent but I think technically it would be ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Quote:
33-1-102. Definitions
(25.5) "Hunt" means to pursue, attract, stalk, lie in wait for, or attempt to shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, collect, or take wildlife. "Hunt" does not include stalking, attracting, searching, or lying in wait for wildlife by an unarmed person solely for the purpose of watching or taking photographs of wildlife.
(51) "Wildlife" means wild vertebrates, mollusks, and crustaceans, whether alive or dead, including any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof, that exist as a species in a natural wild state in their place of origin, presently or historically, except those species determined to be domestic animals by rule or regulation by the commission and the state agricultural commission. Such determination within this statute shall not affect other statutes or court decisions determining injury to persons or damage to property which depend on the classification of animals by such statute or court decision as wild or domestic animals.
I suspect because the rest of us aren't traumatized by the sight of you walking around your house but that poor kid who sees you in the car will be scarred for life. [ROFL3]Quote:
Originally Posted by DSB OUTDOORS
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Not seeing your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockhound
Doesn't apply to cars (the topic of this discussion), only applies to dwelling... it even flat out says it in the legislative declaration at the beginning of the statute: "18-1-704.5 (1) The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes." So rockhound, what's the pont you're trying to make here?Quote:
Originally Posted by rockhound
sorry grabbed the wrong statute, cant seem to find the right one this time,
The Fourth Amendment's protection against unlawful search and seizure generally makes arbitrary police car searches illegal. If the police search your car without a warrant, your permission, or a valid reason, they are violating your constitutional rights. Nevertheless, police can search a car without a warrant in a number of circumstances.
Courts generally give police more leeway to search a vehicle than a home. Under the "automobile exception" to the search warrant requirement, individuals have less of an expectation of privacy when driving a car. It’s worth noting that states are also free to provide more protections to individual’s privacy rights.
When Can Police Do a Warrantless Search?
Not every police search must be made pursuant to a lawfully executed warrant. The Supreme Court has ruled that warrantless police conduct may comply with the Fourth Amendment, so long as it is reasonable under the circumstances.
So, when can police search your car? Generally, under the following circumstances:
- You have given the officer consent
- The officer has probable cause to believe there is evidence of a crime in your vehicle
- The officer reasonably believes a search is necessary for their own protection (a hidden weapon, for example)
- You have been arrested and the search is related to that arrest (such as a search for illegal drugs)
Automobiles may be stopped if an officer possesses a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the motorist has violated a traffic law. If the reason for the stop is a minor traffic offense like speeding, the officer likely isn’t permitted to search your car without more reason. However, if police arrest for conduct arising out of a traffic stop, a search of your vehicle incident to arrest will usually be allowed.
Police Can Search Impounded Cars Without a Warrant
- See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal....V9uiX5PU.dpuf