List of places no one should be allowed to possess a firearm:

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03-10-2013, 17:17
cstone

I would agree to a prohibition against firearms in any detention facility, including mental hospitals. As was mentioned, even the guards don't routinely carry. We always locked up our weapons when dropping off or picking up.

I apologize for not adding the caveat about private property. Property owners have the right to restrict access to people and things they do not consent to on their property. I was thinking more about publicly accessible areas and government controlled property. Government owned property belongs to the citizens and as a citizen, I consent to everyone who is legal to carry not be prohibited from carrying.
I think I have carried in just about all of the other places listed above. I feel special [Flower] but it didn't actually make me any safer. In my previous life, we treated everyone as if they were armed and a potential threat. We often traveled with magnetometers and maintained cleared areas for approved access. We still considered everyone as a potential threat and possibly armed.

Let's just say I trust everyone right up till I have a reason not to, and I don't need much of a reason. You bring your gun, because I will have mine [Beer]
03-10-2013, 17:22
JM Ver. 2.0

Re: List of places no one should be allowed to possess a firearm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstone

I would agree to a prohibition against firearms in any detention facility, including mental hospitals. As was mentioned, even the guards don't routinely carry. We always locked up our weapons when dropping off or picking up.

I apologize for not adding the caveat about private property. Property owners have the right to restrict access to people and things they do not consent to on their property. I was thinking more about publicly accessible areas and government controlled property. Government owned property belongs to the citizens and as a citizen, I consent to everyone who is legal to carry not be prohibited from carrying.
I think I have carried in just about all of the other places listed above. I feel special [Flower] but it didn't actually make me any safer. In my previous life, we treated everyone as if they were armed and a potential threat. We often traveled with magnetometers and maintained cleared areas for approved access. We still considered everyone as a potential threat and possibly armed.

Let's just say I trust everyone right up till I have a reason not to, and I don't need much of a reason. You bring your gun, because I will have mine [Beer]

I've kicked cops out the back door when they forgot to take their gun off.

I made one little punk wait outside for 45 minutes once.

"I don't take off my gun."

The Fuck you don't. Get out.

He sat in his little transport van for 45 minutes to think about what he'd done wrong.
03-10-2013, 17:25
cstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0

Exactly. Fort Hood is a bad example too. That was more a friendly fire type incident. But that's a different discussion.

The fact that none of the people in the first video died is pretty amazing. But still. Nothing would have stopped that guy.

I believe in the first video, the attacker died of gun shot wounds inflicted by the officers shooting back. Something did stop that guy... armed good guys. The lesson I take from that video is that if others have a gun, I want one too.

Be safe.
03-10-2013, 17:28
cstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0

I've kicked cops out the back door when they forgot to take their gun off.

I made one little punk wait outside for 45 minutes once.

"I don't take off my gun."

The Fuck you don't. Get out.

He sat in his little transport van for 45 minutes to think about what he'd done wrong.

Did you call his supervisor? I believe most officers are trained to secure their weapon before entering a lockup facility. Prolonging the booking time, to prove your point is a potential liability.
03-10-2013, 17:29
JM Ver. 2.0

Re: List of places no one should be allowed to possess a firearm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstone

I believe in the first video, the attacker died of gun shot wounds inflicted by the officers shooting back. Something did stop that guy... armed good guys. The lesson I take from that video is that if others have a gun, I want one too.

Be safe.

Right right. I meant that no one could have stopped him before he was able to hurt someone else.

Yes. He did get stopped and did die. But only after he hurt others.
03-10-2013, 17:31
dwalker460

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0

Right right. I meant that no one could have stopped him before he was able to hurt someone else.

Yes. He did get stopped and did die. But only after he hurt others.

Which is why anywhere others could even POSSIBLY be armed I want to be armed. You are proving out my point.
03-10-2013, 17:31
Bailey Guns

I had to laugh watching the skinny black dude get choked the fuck out. And I knew his ass was gonna get dragged over the counter and re-beat as soon as I saw the other cops round the corner. Bet it's a while before he tries that shit again.
03-10-2013, 17:32
JM Ver. 2.0

Re: List of places no one should be allowed to possess a firearm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwalker460

Which is why anywhere others could even POSSIBLY be armed I want to be armed. You are proving out my point.

And I'm telling you that carrying a gun in a jail or a police station is a bad idea.

I'm not talking about anywhere other than a jail or police station.

Had you been in that station for some reason when that all happened and you pulled your gun, I can almost guarantee you would be dead. Not from the crazy guy. From the cop that thought you were with the crazy guy.

Don't argue with which you have no experience. You're not going to win, sir.
03-10-2013, 17:35
JM Ver. 2.0

Re: List of places no one should be allowed to possess a firearm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

I had to laugh watching the skinny black dude get choked the fuck out. And I knew his ass was gonna get dragged over the counter and re-beat as soon as I saw the other cops round the corner. Bet it's a while before he tries that shit again.

I love that video... But, there were mistakes made.
03-10-2013, 17:40
cstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0

Don't argue with which you have no experience. You're not going to win, sir.

This is the Internet. Nobody wins.

I would pull out my gun, depending on where I was and what my options are at the time.

As for people making mistakes... that happens every time people are involved. We watch the videos to improve the mistakes we will make the next time we are in that situation.
03-10-2013, 18:20
colo-pr

Post Office
03-10-2013, 18:23
cstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by colo-pr

Post Office

Why shouldn't citizens be allowed to carry in a post office?
03-10-2013, 18:41
J

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogie

I'd be more worried about somebody hitting a fuel tank, hydraulic line, or control wire.

Can't believe nobody replied to this, or maybe I missed it?

Modern aircraft have backups in duplicate or triplicate on most systems. Don't think a couple of bullets will be able to take them out.
03-10-2013, 18:46
car-15

Quote:

Originally Posted by J

Can't believe nobody replied to this, or maybe I missed it?

Modern aircraft have backups in duplicate or triplicate on most systems. Don't think a couple of bullets will be able to take them out.

I thought about that, but I'm not in the mood for a pissing match today so I kept it to myself.
03-10-2013, 18:49
HoneyBadger

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0

Fort Hood is a bad example too. That was more a friendly fire type incident. But that's a different discussion.

Fort Hood was friendly fire?? WTF are you smoking? It was REAL domestic terrorism - murder, plain and simple. He was allowed to continue on his murdering spree for 10 minutes because no one on the installation was allowed to carry firearm.
03-10-2013, 18:52
HoneyBadger

Quote:

Originally Posted by J

Can't believe nobody replied to this, or maybe I missed it?

Modern aircraft have backups in duplicate or triplicate on most systems. Don't think a couple of bullets will be able to take them out.

Yeah, several bullet holes in the fuselage of a modern commercial airliner would not cause any serious problems. Cabin would depressurize, O2 masks would drop, and the plane would keep on flying. This has been tested again and again: A single, or even multiple bullet holes in a pressurized aircraft are not going to cause it to explode or tear in half like in the movies.
03-10-2013, 18:54
SA Friday

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstone

Why shouldn't citizens be allowed to carry in a post office?

Guns... Going postal... [Roll1] [Coffee]
03-10-2013, 19:05
MarkCO

The fact that JM Ver 2.0 argues for something usually makes me think it is a bad idea just on principle. But for the most part, prisons and jails are probably better left to SORT and less lethal weapons than firearms.
03-10-2013, 19:12
MrPrena

Allergy clinic where they treat anyone with copper, powder,and/or metal allergy.
03-10-2013, 19:17
colo-pr

List of places no one should be allowed to possess a firearm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstone

Why shouldn't citizens be allowed to carry in a post office?

I saw one time in a USPS Mail Office in PR a printed paper in the door that say that is ilegal carry guns inside the post office with a gun with the prohibited sign.

Maybe is just another gun control in PR but comes from the Post Master. Good to investigate if here is the same.
03-10-2013, 19:19
J

It is definitely illegal to carry in the post office here. In all of the US it is.

The question is where "SHOULD" it be illegal, not where is it illegal.
03-10-2013, 19:26
cstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Allergy clinic where they treat anyone with copper, powder,and/or metal allergy.

That is funny [LOL]

I assume that most clinics and Dr's offices are private property and they would establish their own rules for what is and isn't allowed. I would imagine that people with copper or other metal allergies would probably need to live in a plastic bubble [Flower]
03-10-2013, 19:29
cstone

As for commercial aircraft, there are already plenty of people who are permitted to carry firearms on board. If bullets were soooo dangerous to commercial aircraft, I would like to think that list would be much more selective.[Coffee]
03-10-2013, 19:38
MarkCO

Quote:

Originally Posted by J

It is definitely illegal to carry in the post office here. In all of the US it is.

Actually, that is debateable. It is not Federal Property and technically is the same as Private property if you read deep enough.
03-10-2013, 19:44
centrarchidae

Jails, mental hospitals, and any private property where the owner doesn't want it.
03-10-2013, 20:09
ColoWyo

Jails, courts, and commercial airplanes with a few exceptions.
03-10-2013, 21:42
J

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCO

Actually, that is debateable. It is not Federal Property and technically is the same as Private property if you read deep enough.

Dangerous thought.

Most post offices are federal property. Owned by the GSA leased to the PO. Still federal property. My FIL was the head of the regional GSA office.

Some are leased private, but not that many. The few that way get hairy, but not most.
03-10-2013, 21:55
cstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColoWyo

Jails, courts, and commercial airplanes with a few exceptions.

If I had a dollar for every gun carried by judges into courtrooms around the country and carried by the special people onto commercial aircraft, I would retire a wealthy man.

Despite my title at work, I do not believe I am any more special than any other law abiding citizen. IMO, if I get to have a gun, then they should get to have a gun too. If the SHTF, I like my odds knowing that there are a whole lot more good guys with guns than bad guys with guns. Besides, the Giffords shooting in AZ is a great study in how few people will actually pull the trigger even when they have the opportunity.

I don't believe the average citizen is as stupid as the media would have you believe.
03-10-2013, 22:09
earplug

MRI machine.
03-10-2013, 22:13
bogie

Quote:

Originally Posted by J

Can't believe nobody replied to this, or maybe I missed it?

Modern aircraft have backups in duplicate or triplicate on most systems. Don't think a couple of bullets will be able to take them out.

Go back and read the context of my statement, which was based on other people's posts before it. I'm not worried about a bullet taking out a plane by depressurization. I was merely stating that bullets would probably do more damage to other systems than they would in depressurizing the cabin.

And tell me how that fuel tank with triple redundancy is going to hold up with a dozen bullet holes in it. I'm sure some defense contractors would love to know more about this technology. How about armor piercing bullets? Or how about incendiary ammunition? Aluminum sure as hell won't stop either of them.
Who's going to check everybody's ammo before they board? So lets keep talking about letting guns on a plane [Flower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by car-15

I thought about that, but I'm not in the mood for a pissing match today so I kept it to myself.

So instead you wait until you have strength in numbers?
03-10-2013, 22:23
JM Ver. 2.0

Re: List of places no one should be allowed to possess a firearm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Fort Hood was friendly fire?? WTF are you smoking? It was REAL domestic terrorism - murder, plain and simple. He was allowed to continue on his murdering spree for 10 minutes because no one on the installation was allowed to carry firearm.

I should have explained.... I'm sure,given his rank, no one was second guessing his being there. A guy walking into a police station out of uniform is suspicious. A solider on base with a gun is less of a WTF situation.

Does that make sense?
03-10-2013, 22:27
dwalker460

Fuel tanks on airplanes are self-sealing bladders, pistol rounds would have little effect. Pilots cabins are armored.

Again, even BEFORE they had such luxuries, firearms were allowed on planes, and there was no terrorists attacks, hostage taking, etc. because the criminals never knew if the guy sitting next to him had a .38 in his back pocket, a Browning in his satchel, or a goose gun in the trunk behind him.

SAFE ZONES are anything but. TSA is a joke. If you feel safe on a commercial flight I pity you.
03-10-2013, 22:28
HoneyBadger

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0

I should have explained.... I'm sure,given his rank, no one was second guessing his being there. A guy walking into a police station out of uniform is suspicious. A solider on base with a gun is less of a WTF situation.

Does that make sense?

No not really. As someone who works on a military base every day... Despite being in a "very secure" area (inside of a secure area, which is in another secure area, which is inside of a military installation), I do not feel safe at all. I seriously feel like a sheep. "Oh something bad must've happened, I better go back to my office and hide!" [facepalm]
03-10-2013, 22:29
dwalker460

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0

I should have explained.... I'm sure,given his rank, no one was second guessing his being there.

No, ANYONE except an MP on post with a weapon of ANY KIND is immediately suspect, and a handgun even more so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0

A guy walking into a police station out of uniform is suspicious. A solider on base with a gun is less of a WTF situation.

Does that make sense?

No.
03-10-2013, 22:29
HoneyBadger

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwalker460

SAFE ZONES are anything but. TSA is a joke. If you feel safe on a commercial flight I pity you.

^Summary of this entire thread^
03-10-2013, 22:41
bogie

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwalker460

Fuel tanks on airplanes are self-sealing bladders, pistol rounds would have little effect. Pilots cabins are armored.

You've got more faith in technology than I do.
03-10-2013, 22:42
bogie

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

^Summary of this entire thread^

Agreed.
03-10-2013, 22:50
dwalker460

YOU have more faith in security and human nature than I do. Tell you what, YOU can count on the guys who cant even get jobs as private security guards, I will count on myself to keep myself safe. Hows that?

Bottom line, it borders on insanity to place so much trust in anyone or anything. I dont trust the guy next to me at a stoplight not to be completely drunk, I dont trust the guy at the bank to correctly count the money he hands me, I dont trust the credit card company to charge me the correct fees and credit me the correct interest, I dont trust the waiter not to bring me a Medium when I ordered medium rare. I check, double check, and take precautions. So why in Gods name would I trust ANYONE with my health and safety? Especially when they have proven over and over again to be inept, complacent, and generically ineffective?
Its just insane man.
03-10-2013, 23:22
bogie

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwalker460

YOU have more faith in security and human nature than I do. Tell you what, YOU can count on the guys who cant even get jobs as private security guards, I will count on myself to keep myself safe. Hows that?

Bottom line, it borders on insanity to place so much trust in anyone or anything. I dont trust the guy next to me at a stoplight not to be completely drunk, I dont trust the guy at the bank to correctly count the money he hands me, I dont trust the credit card company to charge me the correct fees and credit me the correct interest, I dont trust the waiter not to bring me a Medium when I ordered medium rare. I check, double check, and take precautions. So why in Gods name would I trust ANYONE with my health and safety? Especially when they have proven over and over again to be inept, complacent, and generically ineffective?
Its just insane man.

Did you read #77?
03-10-2013, 23:25
clublights

My house.

No one is allowed to possess here except me .....

and those I authorize.... the rest are subject to lethal force. :-D

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