Enforce What?

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03-11-2013, 21:37
mtnhack

<p>
So I have one. If you are from out of state and move here with a mag dated after July 1, 2013 A.F. (After Fuckheads) am I allowed to move here with them?</p>
03-11-2013, 21:38
KestrelBike

Quote:

Originally Posted by james_bond_007

The bill says the burden of proof is on the prosecution; however Sen. Lundberg (I think it was him) said during the lop-sided "debate" on Friday that generally what might happen is that the mag and the weapon will be confiscated as evidence.
Since it will be expensive to defend yourself in court, a plea bargain will be entered in which the defendant gives up the mag and gun in exchange for the prosecution dropping the charges.

Also, if one can't distinguish one mag fro another, one cannot prove that the "receipt" one has , or the picture with the newspaper one has etc. applies to THAT specific mag. So as you point out, it is impossible, in most cases, to prove the mag was yours before 01JUL13. Even for mags WITH date codes or that are not made anymore, it is difficult to prove that YOU owned it before 01JUL13 and did not get it from a buddy on 02JUL13.

In theory, every range could be visited by "the mag police" , and you could be "challenged" each tie you pull out a mag.

x1000000. I thought at first of dremel'ing all my soon-to-be-"legal" pmags of their date-stamp, but this is not a good scenario to test. in the *very* remote chance that a cop sees dremel marks, that might in some BS manner give him "probable" cause to hold the mags as evidence until you prove yourself innocent. IE Plea bargain in which you give up your property.
03-11-2013, 21:46
sniper7

Fuck that. It is up to the prosecution to prove you didn't own it. Bring in your evidence like pictures with newspaper or a dated receipt or the order confirmation from magpul and tell the prosecution to kiss your ass without a lawyer. Plus the dated ones prior to July 2013 are even more proof.
03-11-2013, 22:00
roberth

Who is going to check our magazines? Does anyone think law enforcement has time for this shit? They have better things to do than check date codes on magazines, especially since the assumption can be made that if you're out and about with magazines you very likely owned them prior to 7/1/13.
03-11-2013, 22:05
ChunkyMonkey

I will not comply!
03-11-2013, 22:05
Fmedges

Anybody that tries to disarm me for a bullshit reason is going to pay with their life, period.
03-11-2013, 22:18
Bailey Guns

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniper7

Fuck that. It is up to the prosecution to prove you didn't own it. Bring in your evidence like pictures with newspaper or a dated receipt or the order confirmation from magpul and tell the prosecution to kiss your ass without a lawyer. Plus the dated ones prior to July 2013 are even more proof.

I wouldn't offer them shit. If they can prove it, then prove it.
03-11-2013, 22:31
ben4372

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfortune

Yeah I'd get on this if I were you.

Hell, I've been buying mags for guns I don't even own in the event I do end up buying one.

I though I was the only one that did this kind of nonsense. I bought a gun once because I got the mags on sale.
03-11-2013, 22:37
james_bond_007

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMBD2112

I'm going back for two weeks at the end of May, I was just curious. The question is since I already own the mags, and I'm a resident of Colorado, would bringing them across state lines be Illegal?

If doing this before 01JUL13 - NO
Not unless you drove through a state that has them banned (such as NY; note- I'm not implying that you might go through NY, just using it as an example).

If doing this on/after 01JUL13 - YES
The bill also says you must own and maintain continuous possession of the mags being grandfathered in.
Note: Continuous Possession is not defined in the bill
In a case where you own them, and they are located in TENN, and you try to bring them back after 01JUL13, you MAY have not satisfied the "maintain continuous possession" clause.
03-11-2013, 22:38
ben4372

Does it address travel? as in going to Wyoming. then coming back across the border.
03-11-2013, 22:46
james_bond_007

So what does "maintain continuous possession" mean ?

If I leave them at home when I go to work, have I relinquished my possession of them ?

Do I have to prevent any other person's access to them by, perhaps, locking them in a safe with me being the only one to know the combination ?

EX: I understand (and maybe incorrectly...someone jump in if I am off base) that there may be circumstances when a convicted felon OWNS a weapon, but is not in possession of it. Such as if he/she owns several weapons, serves time, is released and returns home. If he/she owned any weapons, he/she STILL owns those weapons, but cannot POSSESS them. They often have to be given to others or sold by another on the felon's behalf.
03-11-2013, 22:51
JMBD2112

Quote:

Originally Posted by james_bond_007

If doing this before 01JUL13 - NO
Not unless you drove through a state that has them banned (such as NY; note- I'm not implying that you might go through NY, just using it as an example).

If doing this on/after 01JUL13 - YES
The bill also says you must own and maintain continuous possession of the mags being grandfathered in.
Note: Continuous Possession is not defined in the bill
In a case where you own them, and they are located in TENN, and you try to bring them back after 01JUL13, you MAY have not satisfied the "maintain continuous possession" clause.

That's what I was getting at, but unless they catch it in transit, they couldn't prove it other wise
03-11-2013, 22:56
james_bond_007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben4372

Does it address travel? as in going to Wyoming. then coming back across the border.

HB-1224 does not address this.

It seems like coming back to Colorado WITH the mag presents a possible issue.
There is no good way to prove the exact mag you are transporting was grandfathered in.

POSSIBLE SCENARIOS:
1) Mag (w or w/o date code) could have been yours prior to 01JUL13 and you are just bringing it back
2) Mag has a date code prior to 01JUL13, COULD have been purchased outside of CO, and you are bringing in contraband
3) Mag with NO date code COULD have been purchased outside of CO and you are bringing in contraband

If a LEO stops you (and wants to pursue arrest based on finding a contraband mag) the LEO can't tell which scenario is occurring. The LEO is likely to err on the side of caution, arrest you, confiscate the mag (and perhaps the rifle as well) and let the courts sort it out, most likely at YOUR expense.
03-11-2013, 23:24
james_bond_007

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMBD2112

That's what I was getting at 007, but unless they catch it in transit, they couldn't prove it other wise

In my opinion, (and that's not saying much[facepalm]) , the transit part does not have anything to do with it. As I read the bill, it has to do with own and possess prior to 01JUL13
AND
the inability to distinguish a specific mag owned and possessed prior to 01JUL13 and post 01JUL13
AND
the cost to secure justice.

It seems like the "Mag Police" could find you at a range with a legally grandfathered mag, and arrest you for probable cause of having contraband and confiscate your mag(s) and rifle.
You will be faced with
1) Go to trial and suffer the expensive burden of defending yourself (Note: They don't have to HAVE a case; they just have to prolong things and make it painfully expensive for you to pursue your case at trial)
You MAY LIKELY win....but it WON'T be cheap.

2) Plea bargain, probably trading your mag and rifle for dismissal of your case, because you choose the cheaper way out.

The mag having a pre-ban date code, by itself, does not constitute a "legally grandfathered mag". It is coupled by WHEN you acquired ownership and IF you ever relinquished continuous possession.

...and please steer me in the right direction if you believe I'm "missing something" in some way [Beer]
03-11-2013, 23:38
james_bond_007

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMBD2112

That's what I was getting at, but unless they catch it in transit, they couldn't prove it other wise

How about yet another scenario:

1) You arrive in TENN on 30JUN13
2) You go get your mags (and even buy some more mags from your friends back in TENN)
3) You now own and possess mags prior to 01JUL13 (NOTE: HB1224 does not say anything about WHERE you can own and possess them).
4) You return to Colorado on 06JUL13 with the mags (giving yourself time for your hangover from the party on the 4th to go away before driving back[ROFL1])

Technically, you have met all requirements of HB1224 and own and possess legally grandfathered mags.

....but try telling that to the cop that stops you on your way back.[Bang]
03-11-2013, 23:56
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by james_bond_007

How about yet another scenario:

1) You arrive in TENN on 30JUN13
2) You go get your mags (and even buy some more mags from your friends back in TENN)
3) You now own and possess mags prior to 01JUL13 (NOTE: HB1224 does not say anything about WHERE you can own and possess them).
4) You return to Colorado on 06JUL13 with the mags (giving yourself time for your hangover from the party on the 4th to go away before driving back[ROFL1])

Technically, you have met all requirements of HB1224 and own and possess legally grandfathered mags.

....but try telling that to the cop that stops you on your way back.[Bang]

Telling them WHAT?? Like dude i'm running mags to the state of CO.
OR, Sure Officer please search my vehicle, by all means i'll sign anything you ask[facepalm] Some of you guys hysterics over this shit is beyond insane.
OMG WHAT IF????????????????????
WHAT IF WHAT? What if you get stopped. Follow procedure SHUT UP, don't ramble and break out in a sweat like come cocaine cowboy runnin 40 keys of columbian toothpaste.
You act or look guilty and any seasoned LE will smell it on you like aftershave on prom night.
03-12-2013, 00:14
brutal

I for one am resisting the urge to even comment on something none of us should postulate on until we see how the ""law" for lack of a better term is written.

I just don't see the enforceability.
03-12-2013, 00:14
james_bond_007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

Telling them WHAT?? Like dude i'm running mags to the state of CO.
OR, Sure Officer please search my vehicle, by all means i'll sign anything you ask[facepalm] Some of you guys hysterics over this shit is beyond insane.
OMG WHAT IF????????????????????
WHAT IF WHAT? What if you get stopped. Follow procedure SHUT UP, don't ramble and break out in a sweat like come cocaine cowboy runnin 40 keys of columbian toothpaste.
You act or look guilty and any seasoned LE will smell it on you like aftershave on prom night.

Jim, you never fail to entertain me with your responses. All seem to center around SOMETHING to do with too much or not enough use of some kind of SEARCH function [ROFL2]

You know darn well what I was getting at with my "Scenario"...[Coffee]
03-12-2013, 07:14
brokenscout

I see a lot more police shootings where " criminals"(former law abiding citizens) are shot. And then it is covered up.
03-12-2013, 07:20
Kraven251

Duck Season, Rabbit Season, Duck Season, Rabbit Season ...Gun Owner Season, it just came in and we are going to have to deal with it until we can get this shit off the books.
03-12-2013, 08:52
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraven251

Duck Season, Rabbit Season, Duck Season, Rabbit Season ...Gun Owner Season, it just came in and we are going to have to deal with it until we can get this shit off the books.

[LOL][ROFL2][LOL] http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.45562...81759&pid=15.1

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.49280...14166&pid=15.1 I say son, DOG spells GUN

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