July 1st 2013 Changes to the Trading Post

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03-12-2013, 18:45
Goodburbon

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

There are TP RULES in place. WHICH 20% do not follow now. The hysteria and "connotation" about on lne gun sales combined with a sting operation, could make the MODS / Owners liable and face jail time for facilitating ILLEGAL Sales. It could also under RICO and or the patriot Act have every member Detained, Questioned, Charged and or Imprisoned as an accomplice.
That's the Germany you referred to.

I havent' seen anything in these bills that could be construed to hold the owners/admins of this site responsible for squat.

I guess the Molon Labe on the back of my new COar15 hat means, (don't worry we've already taken them from ourselves.)
03-12-2013, 18:45
J

Another one of you? Read the comments to the thread.

If a sale is caught going through this site, Marlin, Myself and possible others could be charged or sued for facilitating the transfer. Not to mention an injunction would be almost immediate to close the TP and stop letting people sell/buy through the site, or even close the site down entirely.

Other sites that do the sales are in talks of closing down.

I'm losing patience here, FAST! I've been trying to be patient, as we all hate these laws.
03-12-2013, 18:46
funkfool

GGGAAAAAHHHHH!
Just remember what Freedom felt like and vow a return to it.
(Or at least some freedom.... what they would allow us... my - we have fallen far.... :*(

That said... I will follow the rules of this site for any and all transactions conducted through here.
03-12-2013, 18:46
J

Accessory to a crime is already on the statutes. Facilitating any illegal act is already illegal.
03-12-2013, 18:48
Goodburbon

Would wal mart be held repsonsible if a drug deal goes down in the parking lot?

same thing.
03-12-2013, 18:52
jerrymrc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodburbon

So we're going to bend over backwards to appease them ....really? That's how we stand? God what a bunch of jello.

Why don't you just leave the trading post as is, leave it up to the end user to make the decision to comply with these onerous laws or not. Stop trying to enforce the law for the government.

Your not doing yourself any favors here. You want to argue with the Boss send him a PM.
03-12-2013, 18:54
TheGrey
Quote:
Originally Posted by J

We will be instituting these new conditions that you must agree to for using the trading post:

You must list in any ads for a firearm (or anything considered to be a firearm, e.g. a lower) that an FFL transfer is required.
If you are selling a firearm, you must list a preferred FFL to conduct the transfer, however you may inidicate that you are flexible to use other FFLs as agreed upon between the seller and buyer.
Similar to #2, any "wanted" ads for a firearm will need to list a preferred FFL, but may leave it up to negotiation the same.
All magazines prohibited by HB13-1226 may not be listed on the site. This includes any detachable magazine with more than 15 rounds capacity, or for a shotgun any detachable magazine over 8 rounds capacity. It also includes any shotgun that uses tubular feeding devices that hold more than 28" of shotgun shells.
All extensions for magazines that can bring the capacity over the limits set in HB13-1224 will also be disallowed from the trading post.
No firearms will be allowed for sale, trade or wanted ads if that sale includes a magazine exceeding the limits of HB13-1224. You may sell it without mags, or get some non-banned magazines to sell with it.

You will all have to re-agree to the terms and conditions before you can post in the trading post. You won't be able to post in the trading post until you agree. You can then re-list any pending items that you had in there prior to 30 JUN 2013 so long as you don't violate these rules.

At the sole discretion of any staff member, any violating post will be immediately deleted and a warning will be sent to you for violating a minor section of the rules, or the post will be deleted and you will be given a 90 day timeout from the trading post. Egregious violations (repetitive problems or openly and deliberately disobeying the law) will earn you these aforementioned penalties and a minimum 1 month timeout from the entire site.

we do HAVE to do this for the future security of the entire club. Other sites are planning to stop allowing firearms classifieds in CO after the legislation goes into effect. We are doing everything we can to allow this to keep running, and minimize the risk of it being forcibly shut down due to non-compliance.

Thanks Brothers and Sisters--

--J
Understood. It's your sandbox, and in order for us to continue the way we'd like to (in addition to reminding us which hoops have to be jumped through to be in compliance) we'll have to play the game. Thanks for not closing the TP down, despite a few that apparently feel reckless enough to push the envelope and bite the hand that feeds them.
03-12-2013, 18:54
sellersm

Are you shutting down the entire TP? Including non-firearm sales and ammo/reloading sales? Will those all be 'wiped out' as well? We all wish it were different...
03-12-2013, 18:55
hurley842002

Re: Upcoming Changes to the Trading Post

Simplest way to put it, THIS IS A PRIVATELY OWNED SITE, the owner and mods are doing what they believe is in the best interest of the site, themselves, and the members. I don't like what has happened anymore than the rest of you, but I will respect the staff members requests, or I'll get the fu$% out, I prefer respect.
03-12-2013, 18:57
jerrymrc

Quote:

Originally Posted by sellersm

Are you shutting down the entire TP? Including non-firearm sales and ammo/reloading sales? Will those all be 'wiped out' as well? We all wish it were different...

Not at all. In reading again...... The TP section has a trigger that is you can't see it without posting in the acknowledgement thread. I think that the couple of areas that are not affected by the new laws can be left as-is.
03-12-2013, 19:00
Goodburbon

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrymrc

Your not doing yourself any favors here. You want to argue with the Boss send him a PM.

No thanks, If I take issue with something they're doing, I'll have the balls to do so publicly.
03-12-2013, 19:00
spongejosh

This seems like a reasonable response to keep the board running and some ability to sell private party alive.

Suggestion/question:

Would it be possible to have a disclaimer pop up before a trading post thread is submitted? I'm imagining either an actual popup after hitting submit or a check box on the "compose" screen saying you understand the laws and the site's conditions. If it's not acknowledged your post gets canned. Just as a CYA step for you guys. We know the libtards already want to go after everyone who ever knew the gun existed if it's used in a crime. If possible, this could also automatically place a disclaimer in the post about the need for using an FFL and observing applicable laws.

Probably a lot of work but maybe J can do that in his sleep?
03-12-2013, 19:05
th3w01f

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodburbon

Would wal mart be held repsonsible if a drug deal goes down in the parking lot?

same thing.

I don't think your analogy applies, since this is an actively monitored site (by the mods and owner) I think someone dealing drugs right outside the manager’s office would be a better analogy. Are they going to get in trouble the first time.. probably not, but who wants to take that chance.
03-12-2013, 19:08
Goodburbon

Quote:

Originally Posted by th3w01f

I don't think your analogy applies, since this is an actively monitored site (by the mods and owner) I think someone dealing drugs right outside the manager’s office would be a better analogy. Are they going to get in trouble the first time.. probably not, but who wants to take that chance.

Ok easy enough. Stop moderating so much, then it can't be argued that it's "monitored".[Flower]

BOOM! Freedom wins all around.

Or we could go the other way I guess, they've already expressed a propensity to do so regularly.
03-12-2013, 19:09
J

Quote:

Originally Posted by spongejosh

This seems like a reasonable response to keep the board running and some ability to sell private party alive.

Suggestion/question:

Would it be possible to have a disclaimer pop up before a trading post thread is submitted? I'm imagining either an actual popup after hitting submit or a check box on the "compose" screen saying you understand the laws and the site's conditions. If it's not acknowledged your post gets canned. Just as a CYA step for you guys. We know the libtards already want to go after everyone who ever knew the gun existed if it's used in a crime. If possible, this could also automatically place a disclaimer in the post about the need for using an FFL and observing applicable laws.

Probably a lot of work but maybe J can do that in his sleep?

Its not super simple, and I'd rather an accept it once and be done approach, but I'll see what it takes to implement it in this platform and discuss it with the staff.
03-12-2013, 19:11
J

Goodbourbon:

You will not be the first named person in a lawsuit or an injunction, I will. I appreciate your conviction to freedom and admire it, but as your freedom infringes on mine by transacting here possibly illegally, I will reserve the right to "do whatever the goddamn hell I feel is best".

Hope you understand, but I don't require it. That is about as blunt as I can put it.
03-12-2013, 19:14
Goodburbon

Don't have the balls to stand up for what's right? Sell the site to someone who does.

And I'll let that be the end of my protest.
03-12-2013, 19:17
J

Not sure who did it, but good riddance.
03-12-2013, 19:19
GilpinGuy

Divide and conquer. We shouldn't be fighting among ourselves here.

The new "rules" seem reasonable given the new laws.
03-12-2013, 19:21
sabot_round

Tracking like a VCR. Thanks for the heads up J!!
03-12-2013, 19:22
jerrymrc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodburbon

Don't have the balls to stand up for what's right? Sell the site to someone who does.

And I'll let that be the end of my protest.

You think that the staff is just laying over? You have no clue and once again you pick stupid fights and say stupid things. Since you have the balls to "Stand Up" I will read about how you made the headlines tomorrow.

One must learn to pick there battles and for some reason you want to pick it with the site again. [Bang]

And he is not Perma-Banned but this is strike two. The boss may have other ideas.
03-12-2013, 19:23
Marlin

Okay, Since you are to Stupid to figure it out on your own, This has NOTHING to do with Freedom. It has to do with bending to unjust laws. And, until such a time as that law is revoked, accommodations must be made. Now, if you have the spirit of your convictions, start working to get a "friendlier" government elected. Then we can lose it. Until then live with it.
03-12-2013, 19:23
J

Thanks guys. My goal here is not to "give in" or "let up" but make sure our community can stay operating for years to come, the trading post and all.

People are quick to judge when it isn't their skin on the line. I don't want to have to be a defendant in court because we didn't take appropriate actions on our site. Who does? None of the critics I'm sure.

But additionally... what if the court case ends with COAR no longer being allowed to have a TP, or no longer allowed to EXIST????

That is what I'm trying to avoid!
03-12-2013, 19:28
Bailey Guns

Maybe it's just me but I didn't find the new rules, or the reasoning for the new rules, too hard to comprehend. I guess some others do/did. Go figure.
03-12-2013, 19:31
DeusExMachina

It just seems like breaking not bending, even before they are passed. I understand not wanting to be a test case, but wouldn't a sticky suffice compared to active policing? If only to make it easier on the mods.
03-12-2013, 19:33
10mm-man

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrymrc

You think that the staff is just laying over? You have no clue and once again you pick stupid fights and say stupid things. Since you have the balls to "Stand Up" I will read about how you made the headlines tomorrow.

One must learn to pick there battles and for some reason you want to pick it with the site again. [Bang]

And he is not Perma-Banned but this is strike two. The boss may have other ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin

Okay, Since you are to Stupid to figure it out on your own, This has NOTHING to do with Freedom. It has to do with bending to unjust laws. And, until such a time as that law is revoked, accommodations must be made. Now, if you have the spirit of your convictions, start working to get a "friendlier" government elected. Then we can lose it. Until then live with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J

Thanks guys. My goal here is not to "give in" or "let up" but make sure our community can stay operating for years to come, the trading post and all.

People are quick to judge when it isn't their skin on the line. I don't want to have to be a defendant in court because we didn't take appropriate actions on our site. Who does? None of the critics I'm sure.

But additionally... what if the court case ends with COAR no longer being allowed to have a TP, or no longer allowed to EXIST????

That is what I'm trying to avoid!

You guys have to ultimately answer to it; therefore you chose the line in the sand and what side you want to stand on it. Hopefully the day will come when people can freely trade without the government watching over our shoulder, until then; it is what it is! Thanks for the heads up and I hope to see someday it restored..............
03-12-2013, 19:36
ray1970

Sounds like a solid plan, J.

I'm all in favor of keeping the trading post operating smoothly and in full ccompliance with any and all state and federal laws.

Thanks. [Awesom]
03-12-2013, 19:37
J

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeusExMachina

It just seems like breaking not bending, even before they are passed. I understand not wanting to be a test case, but wouldn't a sticky suffice compared to active policing? If only to make it easier on the mods.

I refer you to this: http://www.ar-15.co/threads/93937-Up...=1#post1013569

I tried starting this out nice... that hasn't worked.
03-12-2013, 19:38
J

Quote:

Originally Posted by J

Goodbourbon:

You will not be the first named person in a lawsuit or an injunction, I will. I appreciate your conviction to freedom and admire it, but as your freedom infringes on mine by transacting here possibly illegally, I will reserve the right to "do whatever the goddamn hell I feel is best".

Hope you understand, but I don't require it. That is about as blunt as I can put it.

In case you didn't want to follow the link. Here is the content.
03-12-2013, 19:39
sellersm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrymrc

Not at all. In reading again...... The TP section has a trigger that is you can't see it without posting in the acknowledgement thread. I think that the couple of areas that are not affected by the new laws can be left as-is.

Thanks for clarifying.
03-12-2013, 19:44
sneakerd

No problems here. I understood the new rules the first time I read it. Follow the law, don't set someone else up for a fall.
03-12-2013, 19:44
asmo

Understood. Thank you for trying to find a way to keep the trading post open. It is appreciated.
03-12-2013, 19:45
jerrymrc

Quote:

Hopefully the day will come when people can freely trade without the government watching over our shoulder, until then; it is what it is! Thanks for the heads up and I hope to see someday it restored..............

You have no idea how I pray and want to work for this. What is done is done. We have a year to work on what must be done. I am staying and I am going to fight. I hope ya understand.[Flower]
03-12-2013, 20:06
Troublco

Understood, Mr. J, Sir. ; )

Seems like there always has to be one to push a bad position. Odd that it isn't usually one whose chestnuts will be those in the fire...not. It's sad that it's come to this, but pushing it the wrong way isn't going to benefit anyone here.
03-12-2013, 20:07
Shootersfab

This is for the good of the site! I agree with everything said............it totally Sucks balls but so does our current gov.

Thanks for trying to find a way to keep the TP.

Ps. I was laughing my Ass off reading earlier posts. Some peoples kids[facepalm]
03-12-2013, 20:15
Marlin

Hours of pure monotony, broken up by moments of shear drama.
03-12-2013, 20:31
20X11

Mods/owners:
You have my support, understanding, and empathy. Let me know of anything further you require of me to continue enjoying this website. I realize the world (virtual and real) is changing and appreciate the continued flow of information. I trust you will keep me apprised of the additional inconveniences required to "play" in this space.
03-12-2013, 20:50
10mm-man

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrymrc

You have no idea how I pray and want to work for this. What is done is done. We have a year to work on what must be done. I am staying and I am going to fight. I hope ya understand.[Flower]

You know were I am at and how to contact me; count me in for the "fight".....
03-12-2013, 20:55
Dunecrazzy

Understood.
03-12-2013, 21:14
DSB OUTDOORS

I understand and no problems here. Thanks to all the staff for your efforts to keep this sight going!! [Beer]

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