official 10-22-2012 presidential debate thread

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

What's ridiculous is that Ridge posted pure speculation as if it were solid known fact. The rationale for running the pipeline all the way down south was to get the oil to refineries, presumably so they could sell the products in the North American continent. The Canadians can already ship oil to other countries without an American pipeline. Does Canada have enough workforce to build the pipeline on their own? I don't think so.

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What you think isn't necessarily a good argument. One, the decision to build was just postponed; the pipeline isn't cancelled. Two, it was bad timing (IMHO); coming so soon after the BP gulf spill, folks are a bit more sensitive to environmental concerns.

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Can you make a financial case to build the pipeline and then sell all the product abroad rather than domestically? Sure you can -- you can also build 21st century military tactics around horse cavalry (which we actually did in isolated cases in Afghanistan) if you choose.

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Two separate situations. Once the oil gets to a port or to a refinery, the market sets the conditions for any sale. Note that the US is a net exporter of gasoline. The financial case could vary day by day, depending upon the oil market.

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Then again, Obama was more interested in sound bites and zingers than credible policy or demonstrated results so I can see why he'd rather talk about horses and bayonets than why he's telling the Navy and AF to live with less than their projections require

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http://www.public-consultation.org/p..._May12_rpt.pdf

Interesting reading. A majority of Democrats and Republicans feel that the Defense budget should be reduced. Brings to mind something about "for the people, by the people..."

The Defense Secretary has also proposed significant cuts to the defense budget.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ence-cuts.html

Vice Presidential candidate Ryan is in favor of defense cuts:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162...-defense-cuts/

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or why he went to a fundraiser immediately after our embassy spent 7 hours fighting for their lives or why his economy is still the second worst since the Great Depression despite having a filibuster-proof majority in both houses for two years...

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A myth that's been debunked for some time.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did...-for-how-long/

Actual time with a majority: about 5 months, in two different periods.

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Originally Posted by Mr_RoP

It is funny to me to sit hear and listen to the propaganda being poised against oil and gas. Take it from someone who works in the oil & gas industry, that most of what Rucker is saying is purely false. I always have fun sitting back and listening about energy debates when many out side if this industry have not a clue what goes on day to day. We just site back and enjoy our label "Big Oil" ...

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I'm more than happy to learn. What are my misunderstandings about the oil business? Please provide non-partisan cites, if possible.

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

I guess I was trying to ask, could you provide a few examples of what isn't false from Rucker. I haven't heard any of it and would probably disagree with Rucker anyway, but I am just curious.

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[Beer]

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Originally Posted by Danimal

And of course it is a lot more complicated than that, but those are just some examples of the lies the government tells you and the difference in perspective that you get from being in industry. Mostly it is a bunch of small oil companies that have to find a way to make it through the bureaucratic red tape and sell a commodity where they will get the best money for it. I don't want to write a book on it here, but there really is so much out there if you do the research that will just make you sick.

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Oh I completely understand. My best friends dad owns a trucking company that does work for the oil companies. Also hauling out the byproduct for coordinate in the past as well as budweisier. And hauling wood chips to turn into feed for cattle that is made from the beetle kill. The oil pays the best.

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Originally Posted by Rucker61

If business decisions dictated, then not so wrong. Oil and gasoline are commodities. We the people have nothing to say where the oil goes. We don't even have a say in where the workers to build the pipeline come from, if the contracts let allow for foreign (Canadian and Mexican, for example) workers. It's a Canadian company - why wouldn't they hire their own?

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Many states are working on the pipeline in areas where they don't need fed approval. It must've made good business sense because lot's of American companies are investing in, and building, the pipeline despite Obama nixing the presidential permits.

Furthermore, there is a tremendous backlog of oil that can be transported from various states, to the Gulf Coast, where it can be refined. Not all of the refined gasoline, or oil, is going overseas, though surely some of it will. But we can't use it all. Besides...that how business works. And obviously lots of people will be put to work, including many thousands of Americans.

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Originally Posted by Rucker61

One, the decision to build was just postponed; the pipeline isn't cancelled.

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Bullshit. Fat chance he's going to "un-postpone" it. Although, it wouldn't surprise me if all the concerns were resolved in the next few days so the permits could be issued.

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Originally Posted by Rucker61

Two, it was bad timing (IMHO); coming so soon after the BP gulf spill, liberals are a bit more sensitive to environmental concerns.

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Fixed it...

Pipelines are very expensive to build and maintain. Lots of jobs involved.

The part about the pipeline I don't like is the diluted bitumen. The corrosivity by itself is not necessarily bad. The 'dilbit' can be some nasty stuff if they don't get all the water, sand, and sediment shit out of it... Basically its asphalt mixed with naptha and a potential abrasive. A big problem is when the water/sediment settles out in the pipe, which can cause severe corrosion. I'm fine with the pipe, but I'd personally rather Canada refine it, and then ship us usable fuel.

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Originally Posted by bogie

Pipelines are very expensive to build and maintain. Lots of jobs involved.

The part about the pipeline I don't like is the diluted bitumen. The corrosivity by itself is not necessarily bad. The 'dilbit' can be some nasty stuff if they don't get all the water, sand, and sediment shit out of it... Basically its asphalt mixed with naptha and a potential abrasive. A big problem is when the water/sediment settles out in the pipe, which can cause severe corrosion. I'm fine with the pipe, but I'd personally rather Canada refine it, and then ship us usable fuel.

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Dude, I have no idea what you just said.

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

Dude, I have no idea what you just said.

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All I got out of it was that he likes laying pipe.

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Originally Posted by bogie

Pipelines are very expensive to build and maintain. Lots of jobs involved.

The part about the pipeline I don't like is the diluted bitumen. The corrosivity by itself is not necessarily bad. The 'dilbit' can be some nasty stuff if they don't get all the water, sand, and sediment shit out of it... Basically its asphalt mixed with naptha and a potential abrasive. A big problem is when the water/sediment settles out in the pipe, which can cause severe corrosion. I'm fine with the pipe, but I'd personally rather Canada refine it, and then ship us usable fuel.

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I'd rather have the US increase jobs, find a way to counter the corrosion, the abrasiveness of the impurities in the oils...maybe better filtration at the input points to keep out the water and sediments and maybe build a refinery or two along the way for domestic production in the central US.

Why let others do the work and make the money when you can do it yourself right here at home?