The Undetectable Gun Act

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Originally Posted by UrbanWolf

The bill just passed the House by a voice vote. WTF is a voice vote?

http://bearingarms.com/u-s-house-pas...on-voice-vote/

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It's a parliamentary tool which is the opposite of roll call vote, basically where they can avoid recording important stuff like the way a representative votes.

The chair of the committee / speaker of the house / president of the senate generally says "Ok guys, we're probably doing some underhanded and sneaky shit here, and naturally we don't want to be held accountable, so we're going to have a voice vote... How vote you?" A bunch of people shout Aye or Nay, at which point the speaker / chair / president pretty much arbitrarily decides whether or not he heard more Ayes than Nays, generally says "sounds like they Aye's have it.", and unless someone on the committee requests a roll call vote, which then may or may not be granted, we're pretty much stuck with whatever asinine bills our so called representatives decide to choke down the gullet of Democracy. [fail]

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Originally Posted by RiderGeek

It's a parliamentary tool which is the opposite of roll call vote, basically where they can avoid recording important stuff like the way a representative votes.

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That's just great. So after I write Polis and tell him I'm watching his vote, now I don't have a way to hold him accountable? Perhaps he'll write and tell me the reason he (more than likely) supported renewing the ban.

Voice Vote. LOL

AVR !

Notice that some were trolling the gun community by claiming that the bill with the expansion of the bill was up for a vote - when it was not.

It does us no good that some supposed gun rights organizations troll us for fund raising.

total bs that needs to be shutdown. I hate the idea of this bs even being thought up let alone going to any kind of vote.

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Originally Posted by RiderGeek

The chair of the committee / speaker of the house / president of the senate generally says "Ok guys, we're probably doing some underhanded and sneaky shit here, and naturally we don't want to be held accountable, so we're going to have a voice vote... How vote you?"

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Note that it's also used to deny the opposition the ability to create issues. In this case, you're fooling yourself if you don't think the Dems were waiting with baited breath for the GOP to block renewal and hoping to use individual votes on record as tools for next year's elections. The renewal is ideologically impure and rather silly but really doesn't do much damage to gun rights and denies the Dems some talking points. Anyone who wanted a Pyrrhic victory on this needs a cranial-rectum extraction.

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

Note that it's also used to deny the opposition the ability to create issues. In this case, you're fooling yourself if you don't think the Dems were waiting with baited breath for the GOP to block renewal and hoping to use individual votes on record as tools for next year's elections. The renewal is ideologically impure and rather silly but really doesn't do much damage to gun rights and denies the Dems some talking points. Anyone who wanted a Pyrrhic victory on this needs a cranial-rectum extraction.

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I'm sorry I must be sipping from the wrong cool aid. I thought any infringement was a negative.

I also thought that our Representatives in our government should be accountable to their votes. They found a way to toss us under the bus without no accountability (albeit a rather small bus, more like a rickshaw).

The reason this is primarily a non-issue is because the law has been in effect ever since plastics started getting good enough to use in firearms. Development has been blocked since inception so there is nothing for us to point to and say "this was banned."

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

Note that it's also used to deny the opposition the ability to create issues. In this case, you're fooling yourself if you don't think the Dems were waiting with baited breath for the GOP to block renewal and hoping to use individual votes on record as tools for next year's elections. The renewal is ideologically impure and rather silly but really doesn't do much damage to gun rights and denies the Dems some talking points. Anyone who wanted a Pyrrhic victory on this needs a cranial-rectum extraction.

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No, I understand the need for a certain level of political pragmatism. It's low hanging fruit after all, it probably won't affect many of us ever; that means it's pretty easy to balance between the principles of the 2A, and the perceived need to not look like a bunch of D-Bags. Heck, even the NSSF (the association of many of our favorite firearms manufacturers, retailers, etc) supported this bill. Maybe they're looking at the progress 3D printing has made recently, and are hedging against it? Nah... Who would ever compromise on principal for commercial gain? [ROFL1]

On the same token, I think it could be argued that same kind of pragmatism helped bring us to the point we are now. Slippery slope and all of that. It was politically expedient for many to hop on the NFA bandwagon 80 years ago, and again with the 1968 GCA, 1986's Hughes amendment to the FOPA, and to a lesser degree with 1994's AWB, when many of the bozos who supported it got tossed out on their ear. When is the ideal point to stand on principal? What line are we not willing to cross while making concessions? P.S. those are rhetorical questions.

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Originally Posted by spqrzilla

Notice that some were trolling the gun community by claiming that the bill with the expansion of the bill was up for a vote - when it was not.

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Playing the devil's advocate to the supposed trolling nature of some of our organizations: Sometimes, it's impossible to know until the last minute what's being voted on. Witness the Hughes amendment as mentioned above, which effectively banned affordable machine guns. It was added to the bill at the very last minute in a voice vote, to a bill which otherwise protected firearms owners. Much like a sort of parliamentary shell game, judging by the video tape of the event, it's improbable many of our representatives fully understood what they were voting on.