What about buying a book to help you understand how to do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
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What about buying a book to help you understand how to do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
Using that logic you should just buy your own CNC and rip it out right?Quote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFOGGER
How to, Help / FAQ's , assembly jigs are publicly available. to assist a repair or fab need. Providing the person selling the equipment is not doing the work, there's no conflict of interest and or gray area. You can buy tools to assemble an AR just about anywhere, to use as needed. Once you get in to assembling lowers for people, you have gone from hobbyist to manufacture.Quote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111
Whatis it we say regarding >15 rd mags DADT.
Helping a neighbor build a deck as a favor vs getting paid to help that neighbor build his deck. Once you receive compensation, you're a business. That is how they're looking at this. Did you know your home liability won't cover a liability claim if you were receiving payment for the activity? Since it transitions to a business exposure versus personal once money is exchanged. Same idea here from what I can tell.
Doesn't everyone already get compensated? The blank isn't free, neither is a jig, these are all sold at a profit. How is renting time and a CNC program, also for a profit, any different?
All of you guys who are calling them dummies and lobbing tired old "stupid games" cliches at the CNC shop in question, please point out the actual law that prohibits this activity. Regarding "pay[ing] someone for their help/expertise/program to manufacture a firearm", the law does not prohibit this either.
Seems like some handwringing members of the gun community are just as eager to close the evil Gun Manufacturing Loophole as the ATFE.
I tend to agree that if they set up the CNC programming and charge a fee... this is no longer owner finishing an 80% lower and IMO it's practices like this that actually HURT us in the long run. People saying it will be good for them to actually put it into a law: be VERY careful what you wish for. My guess is if the current administration puts anything into words it will be that 80% lowers are now considered a lower and people are abusing this intentional loophole and they'll change it so that it can only be 50% or less lowers or something like that. Good luck finishing out a 49.9% lower with a drill and a jig. I don't see this as pushing the envelope I see it as poking the sleeping bear with a stick & charging tickets to watch to turn a profit.
Jer if this was completely under the radar I might agree with you but with legislators crying about ghost guns the issue is coming up no matter what.
If you are working with metal what has to remain for 80% AR seems pretty stable.
This is more about help. If you come over to my house and use my jig/tools/CNC am I in trouble? Only if paid you say, can you buy me lunch, owe a favor, bring a 12er of sawtooth?
You're doing it to assist not ,Quote:
Originally Posted by merl
1- advertise, world wide (once it's on line) everybody see's it
2- turn a profit
This is different than a machine shop advertising to 'help' you for a free. In other words they're basically now manufacturing and, at least to me, this doesn't seem as vague as your making it seem. Seems pretty cut & dry to me. If a buddy 'helps' me change my spark plugs is he a mechanic? If a buddy has a shop that he charges people to 'help' them change their spark plugs on a daily basis do you think he's now a business and as such required to pay taxes and have licenses and such or is he still just 'helping' a buddy? What we're talking about here (unless I'm mistaken) is a for profit entity charging for a service which happens to be finishing 80% lowers that isn't for themselves... I fail to see how this isn't a blatant violation of the spirit of 80% lowers. Keep in mind that 80% lowers themselves are a bit of a loophole that is supposed to allow YOU as the end user to manufacturer your own firearm for your own personal use. Now you want to test loopholes to loopholes and blatantly wave it around in public via advertising and have it be acceptable to the ATF? That's thin ice in winter and it's 80deg outside.Quote:
Originally Posted by merl
Exactly. This is what a manufacturer does not a buddy. If Jim comes over and borrows my jigs and bits or vice versa and then receives 'guidance' along the way but no money changes hands how can this be misinterpreted as a manufacturer? I don't know too many manufacturers giving away all their services for free as a business model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo