What if all the illegals left?

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Originally Posted by ray1970

I didn't read it. Too long for me. Did it mention the fact that fruits and vegetables would quadruple in price? No way in hell I'm paying $12 for a head of lettuce because we now have to pay middle class white kids $15 an hour to work the fields.

I love my illegal immigrant friends. [Flower]

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Middle class white kids don't work the fields. These days they don't appear to work. They used to work fast food, restaurant and retail for minimum wage.
That situation seemed to work well for most everybody. Kids earned money and learned responsibility of employment. Typically low margin/entry level skill business got relatively cheap labor and both benefited overall economy.

From what I see in produce section at the market, we import a majority of our produce.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_15247891

Those of you who are skeptical the article was written by the ultra-liberal Tina Griego are correct.

I would be happy, I know that much.

Schools would be better off and have more funding so that our kids would get better attention at school.

i would have a lot less to worry about with drivers that don't have insurance.

I'll grow my own damn vegetables if I need to. There is a lot of local stuff, but there is also plenty that comes from out of country so food prices would not skyrocket like you imagine.

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Originally Posted by ZERO THEORY

The crime, tax, traffic, welfare, and population stuff is interesting (and infuriating). However, the jobs claims are speculation at best. Consider that most illegals are doing jobs that Americans won't do, hence they get paid nothing to do them. Secondly, you've got to be realistic about how American companies work. If all of the sudden, the labor cost for any given project rose by even 5% from having to now meet minimum wage or more, a good portion of those companies would pack up and set up their operation in another country. Mexico being a likely choice, ironically enough. Consider the economic impact of that.

And things like point #11 in the end cap cheapen the validity of the article. "...from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists." This is one of those obnoxious absolutist statements that make you question the sources of the author. Don't let confirmation bias blind you to questionable journalism.

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Companies packing up, oh you mean like the autos that already do a lot of Mexico stuff, can-am, black and decker, calaway golf, caterpillar, flambeau hunting decoys, lots of kids toys etc etc.

they are going for cheaper labor already. Obviously we are too expensive with illegals as it is....or the laws we have are terrible and not set up for businesses to thrive.

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Originally Posted by ZERO THEORY

The crime, tax, traffic, welfare, and population stuff is interesting (and infuriating). However, the jobs claims are speculation at best. Consider that most illegals are doing jobs that Americans won't do, hence they get paid nothing to do them. Secondly, you've got to be realistic about how American companies work. If all of the sudden, the labor cost for any given project rose by even 5% from having to now meet minimum wage or more, a good portion of those companies would pack up and set up their operation in another country. Mexico being a likely choice, ironically enough. Consider the economic impact of that.

And things like point #11 in the end cap cheapen the validity of the article. "...from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists." This is one of those obnoxious absolutist statements that make you question the sources of the author. Don't let confirmation bias blind you to questionable journalism.

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That is the biggest fallacious argument when it comes to the debate on illegal immigration. "They do the jobs we Americans won't do." Bovine feces, my friend. If there were no cheap (albeit illegal) labor, the system would shift to accommodate. Last time I checked, this illegal immigration is a more recent (meaning last 30 years or so) phenomenon. We survived post WWII without resorting to all the "crappy" jobs needing to be done by illegals. Perhaps it would help improve our work ethic across the board in this country. With no immoral and really cheap labor, there would be work that needed to get done, and people couldn't sit back and say "oh we'll just get some Honduran immigrant to do that!"

I have to agree with Mr. Fred here. The legal immigration path is broken when it takes people 7-20 years to get in despite having well-paying jobs, knowing basic civics, etc.

In my ideal setup, we would lift the legal immigration quotas but strictly enforce the rules about criminal background/conduct, contagious diseases (especially STDs and foreign viruses), and have a monitored guest worker program that would give outsiders a way to legally come in, work under US laws and rules, but not qualify for citizenship. It would probably need a Constitutional amendment to prevent the creation of anchor babies by people coming in under the guest worker program but I'm not really that hard up on the "anchor baby" issue. Bruce Lee got back in the US because he was born at an American hospital while his parents were touring here.

What we have now is so broken it would be hard to design it to fail harder than it does today.

I'd be happy to just see actual enforcement of the laws that are already in place.

Stop providing welfare to them. Without education, housing, and medical, they will have to leave. Sure, patch them up at the ER, but as soon as they are able to travel, toss them back over the fence. And send the bill to Mexico or Canada - wherever they came across in the first place.
Start prosecuting every business and individual that hires illegals. Without any income, they will have to leave.
Start rounding them up and pitching them over the fence into Nuevo Laredo. You will soon see the rest of them fleeing back across a safer section of the border.

Anchor babies are bogus. Just because your mother swam over in time to drop you on our shore, does not entitle you and your extended family the "right" to be automatic "citizens."

"Living wage" and "Jobs Americans won't do," is also bogus. Low paying jobs were never meant to be careers - they are entry level. Cut off the welfare and I guarantee there will be plenty of Americans willing to do those jobs.



Of course, these are just dreams. It is only going to get much worse. America as we knew it is gone forever.
Time to prepare for what comes next.

South A Merry Cuns?

While I do respect the opinion of everyone, I do find it interesting or rather amusing, on how well we all have forgotten on how North America was raised, on how the principles became, and how we started our Republic, Union, State...

Our forefathers, our ancestors, our great great grandfathers, they all came into this land, not by legal means, no one had papers to sign, ( in the beginning that is ) even our Statue of Liberty on the very plates written on it, " Give me your sick, the poor " So forth, I agree that if you want to have a better living ( dream ) you should go by the legal system, but not many can do so, because of the amount of time\money that is needed, we are all immigrants, non of us are native to this land, except the men living in the so called reserves, granted our economic system is affected by it, but it also thrives from it, at least for those whom spend the money in our soil, the change that we are speaking about on this forum, we are talking about changing a system that allowed this, since the day the people from the Old World came to the New World, to change this, implies on changing the whole ideals and laws of how our country was created, like it or not we are all immigrants, we where just lucky enough to be born in here. I agree on the laws of immigration that should be modified, but to kick out those who are in need, those who only want a chance to become better men and provide for their families, it is just pure hypocrisy, all of our ancestors came here by no legal means, they gave it all for us, yes there are those whom only want to take advantage of us and milk the system and provide nothing good, those I agree that should be kicked out, but those who want to excel and provide to our great Country, those should be give the benefit of the doubt .

As for jobs, I find it a weak argument, there are plenty of jobs out there, many of those jobs, most of us will not do it for X and Y reasons, our corporations are leaving state side weather we have illegals or not, they do not give a shit about anything, except for profits, we almost no longer produce like back in the day, most of our stuff comes from China...

" Stop providing welfare to them. Without education, housing, and medical, they will have to leave. Sure, patch them up at the ER, but as soon as they are able to travel, toss them back over the fence. And send the bill to Mexico or Canada - wherever they came across in the first place.[/COLOR]
Start prosecuting every business and individual that hires illegals. Without any income, they will have to leave.[/COLOR]
Start rounding them up and pitching them over the fence into Nuevo Laredo. You will soon see the rest of them fleeing back across a safer section of the border. "


^ This is debatable, as many will not return, they already left everything to come up, what makes you think they will simply give up and go back ? Our Forefathers did not...
It might create a bigger issue, more crime, less educated people ( right now we are hurting for education ) the D party will not let it happen since they need their votes, most of the companies\corps have deep ties with the local gov, this will go no where, no I do not have a negative mentality but it is the hard cold truth.

And to make it clear, I do not support illegal immigration, but I do support the idea on giving a chance to those who can provide for our awesome Country and\or those who want to better them selves and provide to their families that will provide to us the people.

Just a thought

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Originally Posted by sniper7

they are going for cheaper labor already. Obviously we are too expensive with illegals as it is....or the laws we have are terrible and not set up for businesses to thrive.

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This is an interesting point. Considering that there were good-paying jobs for hard-working Americans with little in the way of education clear into the 70s, I'd like to see some more data on what happened. It seems like things took a very severe turn following the oil crunch of Carter's years, and the illegal influx wasn't far behind it. So fair play, this would be an interesting talking point for another thread.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

We survived post WWII without resorting to all the "crappy" jobs needing to be done by illegals.

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The post WWII economic recovery was a substantially different macroeconomic environment than today's. Come on now.

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

That is the heart of the liberal talking points.
NO illegals do the jobs that employers wont pay a legal American to do. Why pay an American a fair wage? They can pay an illegal less. .

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If you have faith in companies that will pay an illegal less to suddenly do the right thing and hire a strong American work force once they left, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.