You know what job I would love?

Wow, nobody saw the part where their house depreciated in half, they went to the bank and the bank told them to shut up and color?

House went from $280,000 to $140,000 in value.
They can't make the payments and the bank won't refinance.
They are making payments on something worthless so decide to let the Fn bank take it in the shorts and use the money instead to get their company back on track. I think it was a sound idea. The bank took no burden of the economical downtrend and put the family at financial terminal prospect as much as the family is now putting the bank at financial risk. Ultimately, the family here had nothing to lose because they had lost it all anyway. The bank still had investment to lose and chose to take an all-or-nothing approach to their investment. The family called their bluff.

I don't see the problem here. Oh... They went to outback and went boating. Ya, that's huge.

Friday, I see a problem here.

This couple took the risk of buying the house for what they paid. they just as easily could have blamed the seller of the home and said "we're not going to give you that much for the home", but they didn't. They paid the asking price - some time home prices go up, some times they go down. Their home price went down - they lost, but (as Irving said), the value of the home is irrelevant unless they are going to sell it- or try to get another loan against it (which is probably exactly what happened).

If I agree to pay $45k+ on a loan for an Hummer H2, then it's only worth $25k as soon as I drive it off of the lot, that isn't the lenders fault - or the sellers... If I total the Hummer a month later and the insurance company only pays me $25k for the Hummer (meaning that I still owe $20k on a totalled vehicle), do I have the right to say "Naw, I'm not gonna pay it"? Heck NO! I agree to pay the amount I borrowed. PERIOD.

Anything less and I should be taken to court and sent to jail for theft.

15 or so years ago, went to the locally owned bank for a first time home loan, they run the numbers, tell the wife and I we can afford $250,000 home... Ok yeah, thanks, but no. We bought something "real" for $70,000 and fixed it up. Borrowed against it a few times as it appreciated in value, to fix it up more, not to buy cars and boats. Now we're technically upside down (or even) in this market and nobody will talk to us about re-finance to knock off some years or get a better rate that everyone else is getting who are in over their heads. Doesn't make sense to me. I guess since my credit is top notch, they figure I'm no money to them. Bust my butt to do the right thing and get screwed...

Frustrating to see people way over their heads in the first place, and getting all the help they need or living free and clear while it all gets tossed around in the courts or eventually going to bankruptcy and sticking the lenders with the bill.

rant over.

While there's certainly a problem with personal responsibility in this country, the banks are crooked and deserve their fair share of the blame. For example, my parents hit some hard times recently and tried to get their loan modified. After faxing duplicates and triplicates of everything, hearing "We've got everything" from the bank, then having to fax more shit (on a daily basis), they finally got a letter saying their loan modification was denied because of lack of information...When my mum called the bank to attempt to find out wtf happened they hung up on her.

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

are you a former firefighter because they canned you for being too uptight and driving your coworkers crazy?

cry harder and you can quench the flames of my arson with your tears.

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That was uncalled for man. Joking about arson is one thing but being an asshat to a retired firefighter is something else entirely.

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Originally Posted by Byte Stryke

Former firefighter, retired after I pulled the bodies of 2 kids out from under a bed because Ex-husband didnt get the house and didnt want to pay for it, set fire to the house.


yeah, Arson is really fucking funny.

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Oh.

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

We dont know anyone around here who started his house on fire, now do we?

i guess we do.

oh, well

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I forgot about him.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

Did they claim that was a direct result of people not paying their mortgages? I don't remember. Well, now that I think about it, it must have been because the whole issue was putting people into homes when they couldn't afford them. The Bailout is a great example, but is that the only time there is a direct correlation?

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Not that I'm aware of.

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

are you a former firefighter because they canned you for being too uptight and driving your coworkers crazy?

cry harder and you can quench the flames of my arson with your tears.

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Ouch

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Originally Posted by RobertB

Do they build houses here far enough apart that you could burn one down without taking out all your neighbors, too? :D

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Um, no.

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Originally Posted by theGinsue

I agree to pay the amount I borrowed. PERIOD.

Anything less and I should be taken to court and sent to jail for theft.

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+10000. Current market value has nothing to do with the arguement.

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Originally Posted by gnihcraes

Bust my butt to do the right thing and get screwed...

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Rgr that... I'm sick of being screwed. I have debts and and doing my dangdest to repay them. I talk to my creditors and say, "Hey, I can't afford the $800 bill cause I'm also paying on student loans, etc. Would you mind increasing the term period and I'll pay you $500 a month until PIF'ed?" Them: "No can do Mr. Bear. If you're late on a payment then we charge another $40K in interest and yadda, yadda..." Me: "....FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!" (Not really).

I've caught myself recently even asking if I should do "the right thing" or the "thing I can get away with get what I want". Scary slope.

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Originally Posted by theGinsue

We were raised to honor our obligations.

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Antithesis: But if no one else does.... lol.

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Originally Posted by theGinsue

Friday, I see a problem here.

This couple took the risk of buying the house for what they paid. they just as easily could have blamed the seller of the home and said "we're not going to give you that much for the home", but they didn't. They paid the asking price - some time home prices go up, some times they go down. Their home price went down - they lost, but (as Irving said), the value of the home is irrelevant unless they are going to sell it- or try to get another loan against it (which is probably exactly what happened).

If I agree to pay $45k+ on a loan for an Hummer H2, then it's only worth $25k as soon as I drive it off of the lot, that isn't the lenders fault - or the sellers... If I total the Hummer a month later and the insurance company only pays me $25k for the Hummer (meaning that I still owe $20k on a totalled vehicle), do I have the right to say "Naw, I'm not gonna pay it"? Heck NO! I agree to pay the amount I borrowed. PERIOD.

Anything less and I should be taken to court and sent to jail for theft.

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There is a huge difference between $20k and $280k when it comes to financial destitution. The risk isn't an all or nothing scenario.

I'm all for paying your bills and doing the right thing, but there's another side to this coin. The bank has just as much claim to the dilemma and just as much financial liability. Neither the bank nor the family intended for this loan to result in the current dilemma, but they both took risk in lending and borrowing. Yet the family, according to many in this thread, are completely liable and the bank has no reason nor fault. Not so. If the bank would have refinanced the morgage to a workable level, they would have lost profit, but not as much as they currently are going to now with no money coming in and the prospect of having court costs, eviction costs, and reselling the house. It's a lose-lose prospect for the bank and the family. They did what they needed to re-establish their financial stability, and only took this path after the bank stone-walled.

This sounds a lot like civil-disobedience to me. The family had nothing to lose as everything was lost already.

I'm not condoning mass morgage non-payment here. I'm analyzing the specific situation and placing myself in the families shoes and then the banks. I believe the bank made a very bad call in not trying to work with the family and taking a hardline approach to the matter. It will cost both of them and there were other options.

What other option did the family have when they decided to stop paying their morgage? Should they have sold everything, closed down their business and then what, get a job at McDonalds and try to pay $1800+ morgage a month? They would have failed to make the payments there too. Should they just pack up their stuff and move leaving the title on the floor for the bank? Is that the right thing to demand by the bank? Financially, how does anyone benefit from this. You now have a destitute family living off of food stamps and unemployment that can't sell any of their posessions because everyone else is not making it financially, so they just keep living off of state/federal support. It makes zero sense laying all the blame at the feet of the family in this situation. There were viable options for compromise that benefitted everyone in the long run, and the bank drove that decision.

There are ALWAYS three truths to any matter; pro, con, and what's untimately decided by a higher authority. Some of you haven't looked at the con in this one. You are solely focused on the Pro.

All I really know here (looking back at the picture at hte top of the article) is that they could probably get a few steaks outa that dog.

Hey, I'm just sayin' is all...

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One reason the house is worth so much less than the debt is because of the real estate crash. But the couple also refinanced at the height of the market, taking out cash to buy a truck they used as a contest prize for their hired animal trappers.

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Seriously? We're supposed to feel sorry for them for this?

My wife and I took a hit of almost 60% on the assessed value of our home last year. Does this mean it's worth any less to US? No. We continue to pay the mortgage (actually over pay by about $300 every month, should be paid off in another 12 years or so), confident that the market will eventually rebound(and hopefully stabilize at a realistic level). Regardless, we choose to meet our obligations. In the end, these homeowners can't really blame the banks. Anyone who counts on the continued growth of an obviously overinflated market is an idiot. The terms of the loans were spelled out in excruciating detail on the loan paperwork. If they failed to read before they inked the bottom line, that's their fault. Businesses fail every day, even in the best of times. This is not an excuse to walk away from one's obligations. Imagine if they owed $200K in back taxes, what would happen if they chose to "walk away"?
Again, why should those of us that make the correct decisions be required to pay for the poor decisions that others make?

What little fuckheads. "It's the banks fault for getting us into this mess"
Not really. Read the contract, it's an important one so knowing what is in it might be beneficial to you. Also I hope your fucking plane crashes.