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That's why it seems shady to me. The UC possibly identified himself and the scum bag didn't comply to orders and didn't believe a single word coming out of this UC's mouth. Why did the UC try to grab and pull the scum bag out of his car window? I'm guessing the UC wanted to be a bad ass...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
Nope. The BG did not escalate it, the no-proof-cop did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobat555
The no-proof-cop escalated a non-violent crime into a fight. The bad guy attempted to defended himself from aggression from someone he has no reasonable belief was a cop. The cop, who doesn't really count as a cop in this situation because the bad guy doesn't have any reason to believe he is one, was not justified in defending himself as he was the initial aggressor. That's Colorado law.
I am always on the side of Law Enforcement. I grew up in a LE family and always give LE the benefit of doubt BEFORE any bad guy and my posts in previous Cop threads prove that. But not this time.
This cop ditched his uniform, ditched his unit, ditched his dash cam, ditched his badge and went after a BG. Something seems fishy to me. Why would the cop ditch ANY evidence he was actually a cop? Why would he ditch the video recorder that could prove what happened? This is very close to enough to prove intent. Even UC carry badges. This cop should be fired at the very least. And instead of the BG being dead, he should be in jail or seeing a judge on extortion charges. BG was wrong, cop was wronger...(that a word?)
Agreed, the cop should have had a badge. Let's not forget, this op was signed off on by his sergeant and his lieutenant, so he should not necessarily be on the hook for procedural gaffes. The BG was in possession of a weapon in the commission of a felony, and escalated to deadly force when confronted. We obviously don't have all of the details here, so passing judgement on the cop may be a bit premature. Still, had the BG not CHOSEN to commit a felony, he would not have been there to be shot, the cop would have been responding to a noise complaint somewhere, and the old lady would have driven her car home from the grocery store. BG made his choice, and it turned out bad, for everyone involved.
no badge?
No ID?
No Uniformed Backup?
You are simply assaulting another citizen.
He should have had Backup in the area, gotten the evidence he required and called them in for the arrest.
The BG would be in jail, the officer would be responding to a noise complaint, and we would be here bitching about something different [LOL]
I agree that we don't have the details of the incident. We don't know exactly HOW the guy responded to the officer's attempt to identify himself as LE.
Was it:
"Oh shit, the cops! You'll never take me alive!" *pulls knife*
or
"I don't believe you, where's your ID?" To which the cop replies, "I don't have my badge on me at the moment."
"Then get away from my car!" *pulls knife*
And then the suspect would have just assumed he was being attacked by any other person.
I couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
I Sort of equate this to my last "project" for a major Bank.
I Show up without my Badge
I try to go behind the teller line "Claiming" I work for ____ Bank.
Bank guard slams me to the floor
who's wrong?
Who committed the crime?Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte Stryke
^Fixed it for ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by TFOGGER
Ok then, the BG should be in jail with extortion and possession charges, not dead.
The no-proof-cop escalated it and the BG defended himself against what he was totally justified and reasonable in believing was an attack. I'll say it again, Colorado law does not allow an initial aggressor to use deadly force when the person they are attacking fights back. That's what happened here. Nor does it allow for escalation of force for stolen keys and $100 extortion (even if maybe it should, who wouldn't want to beat someone's ass for that).
These apply because this situation has to be treated as civilian-vs-civilian not cop-vs-civilian. ANY reasonable person would not have believed that guy was a cop.
Mr. no-proof-cop should be in jail and an investigation needs to be done to find out why he and/or his superiors decided it was a good idea to attempt an arrest after making sure he removed ALL proof he was actually a cop.
Look...the dead bad guy was in fact a bad guy, not disputing that. From what we know, this cop is a dummy at the very least and had intent at the most. You simply don't remove all indications you are a cop and then expect to be treated like one.
Now, if he had shown up in uniform like he should have and the BG proceeded to pull a knife...shoot em' dead Mr. Cop...Hollohas would give you a high five.
The bank guard has legal authority to protect the bank, the BG in this case had no authority. Not saying the cops didn't screw the pooch, but I still assert that BG put himself in a hazardous situation, and knew it (hence the big honkin knife).Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte Stryke
I liken this to someone shoplifting that is caught by plain clothes store security on the way out the door. A struggle ensues, because Mr Shoplifter doesn't want to go to jail. Mr. Shoplifter pulls out a knife, and the security guard (in plain clothes) ends up killing the shoplifter. Do we crucify the security guard for not letting the shoplifter go when he pulled out a weapon? What if the shoplifter was actively pursuing the guard, even after the guard chose to step back and let him escape?