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in nevada the law stated that if it was clearly marked at EVERY entrance it was illegal, I don't see anything like that in the CRS. To me the law is the law, the law doesn't mention it, so its not against the law. It would be really easy for somone to say "I didn't see the sign, I was too busy looking at all sparkly lights", or to honestly not see the sign. I see where it's a grey area, but I'm no lawer, or a cop, I just quoted the law.
remember, its called concealed for a reason. don't make a big deal of it and nobody will know any different.
^THIS.Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper7
Its called concealed carry for a reason. Be comfortable with yourself and your setup (i.e. don't be adjusting it and going out of your way to cover the part of your body you have it on... I can spot these guys in a heartbeat) and the ONLY time ANYONE should know its there is if you find yourself in a situation in which you have to use it, in which case a trespassing violation will be the least of your worries.
Does the sign hold weight under the law? I don't care. If it doesn't, its not something to worry about, if it does then I'd rather risk a trespassing ticket + fine than the other option, and in either case the above applies so it shouldn't be an issue at all.
And you can unequivocally identify every "unaffiliated" person?Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Fowler
that's the crux of the issue, without mandatory signage regulations, there is no way to guarantee that everyone would see the sign. Colorado has no such regulations and as such the signs are meaningless. Otherwise businesses could post little bitty no CCW signs at 6pt type on the bottom edge of the inside of the door and then get people arrested? I think not.Quote:
and could not have entered legitimately without passing a sign,
Its the "business owner asked me to" part that is important. I also doubt that you would waste your time on patrol ticketing people inside of businesses when there was no call made by the business owner.Quote:
I would have no trouble issuing a trespassing citation to the party if the business owner asked me to.
So if I walk into the 7-11 barefoot or run one of those little stop signs in front of the Walmart, its my understanding that Law Enforcement has no jurisdiction to ticket me ... so why would "no guns" signs be any different?Quote:
I would view it as similar if they had any sign putting a restriction on your activities within their private property. If you were in violation, I wouldn't have a problem writing the ticket then, either. No warning in the form of a request to leave would be needed, IMO. The warning was the sign, if you had to pass it to enter the building.
In general thats what I do (if nothing else I don't wanna give anti gun idiots my money) ... but like you said MIL trumps many desires.Quote:
Before I became a cop and had to rely on my CCW, I just chose not to patronize businesses that wouldn't allow firearms inside. I realize this isn't always an option (mother-in-law trumps many desires!) but that would be my advice if it's an important issue to you.
At any rate, unlike Texas, Kansas and other states with signage laws, I live by the "concealed means concealed" mantra.
To be honest I seriously doubt that most of the casinos actually care about licensed CCW ... but like most people they think putting a little sign up will prevent criminals from engaging in criminal activity (the signs were probably mandated by some desk jockey back in Vegas, or wherever the casino companies are based).
great discussion. Like a masters course on carry. Too bad there is no real consensus on it.
I do agree if you are concealed and not acting like some sort of noob about it; no one should ever even know you are carrying at all. Then there shouldn't be any issues.
We have a cabin up near CC... I carry every time I go to 'town'...
What sign?
[Flower]
Oh, I guess it is about that time for this thread again. It's been what, a month?
Find what the guy named after a knife said, he's correct.
I think you misunderstood me.
What I'm saying is this. Let's say King Soopers up here had a sign at the front doors saying, "No firearms allowed in store" The sign was posted not 4' X 3' or something, but a placard at the two entrance doors - maybe 6" X 6". Any customer entering through a reasonable entrance would thus have to walk by it. If it is in good repair and legible, I would consider it valid.
Let's say that the manager called in because somebody appealed to be carrying a concealed weapon. We will assume he is a licensed CCW who just makes a poor wardrobe choice and displays his weapon accidentally, and the manager is an anti-gun worrier. I meet the gentleman outside, as he is leaving. There are no mishaps, and he presents me with his CCW.
IF (here is the if) the manager wanted me to write him for trespassing, because he walked past a sign saying, "No firearms allowed in store" and during the duration of his visit he was in violation of the property owner's wishes I would absolutely write him a ticket. Is it really "fair"? No, but he walked past a legible sign.
If the manager just wanted me to safely address the man, and ask him not to carry his firearm back into the store, I would do that as well.
It all comes down to what the private property owner wants and what is reasonable. In this case, I might assume the CCW holder will fight the ticket and I may photograph the signs to show that they were, indeed posted and visible at the time of the incident, and submit those into evidence. Your example of 6pt font is a little ridiculous - that clearly wouldn't be legible. I'm saying that if there was a legible sign posted at every entrance, and there was a call for service, and a building manager asked me to cite the person (meaning they would be listed as the trespassing victim and thus may be asked to testify), I would do it.
I would hate it, but I would do it. I think the onus is on us as responsible gun owners to try to act in accordance with property owners' wishes so we don't give people any more reason to hate us.
We need a reality show called extreme CCW make over. Where the host surprises the mark and takes them on a shopping trip to pick out appropriate jackets and shirts that hide the IWB holsters.