anti gun defense tips and suggestions

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Originally Posted by cofi

Why do 100 round mags need to be legal?

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Why would they need to be illegal? with a mag change taking less than .5 second to swap even GI 30 round mags, is a 100 round mag really going to make much difference? We are not talking about a full-auto weapon in this case, so rate of fire is not going to change by much. Capacity is really pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Really more of a distraction tactic used to scare folk with the mental picture of some nutjob running around blasting away at full autoburn.

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Originally Posted by cofi

Why would we allow our citizens to own military weapons?

Been hearing those a lot recently

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The weapon in question most are concerned with is not a military weapon, it is a military style weapon and there is a difference. I firmly believe the 2ND amendment protects the citizens right to be at least as well armed as the military. It helps to make sure those asking these questions understand that NO LEGALLY BOUGHT full-auto weapon has ever been used in a commission of a crime in this country since the passing of the law controlling them. It also helps if you can gently explain to them that owning a machine gun is absolutely legal, assuming you purchase the Tax Stamp as required by law and follow the procedure for purchasing.

Have found it helps if you gently remind them that much like a woman will do with shoes or handbags etc. many collect firearms in the same way. Asking a woman why she needs 100 pairs of shoes that all look the same to many people will get you not much more than a funny look and a "because I like them" etc. I personally have 400 or so 1/32 slot cars and a 100 foot track in my basement, and when asked why I reply pretty much the same, I like them and they are one of my hobbies. A gun enthusiast is no different, so why the need to explain why one may have guns they have never fired, or a whole rack of historic military or western or whatever guns? I am sure theres a guy out there that has a wild hair to own at least one of every polymer pistol produced and has a collection that would make no sense to many, and you know what? THATS HIS EFFIN RIGHT. And you know what else? Until he decides to pick one of those pistols up and commit a crime the law supports his right to do so and as an AMERICAN citizen it is the duty of every single American to support and protect that right, with just as much or more effort as protecting free speech or religious freedom or any other right that might seem less dangerous or make more sense to you personally.

I usually use the Socratic method.

Who is responsible for your safety? (police)

Have you ever heard of Castle Rock V. Gonzales? (no)

So if not the police then who is responsible for your safety? (uncomfortable silence)

I don't look to "win" an argument with a person who hates guns. They don't think logically enough to be swayed by rational argument. Just leave them with that awkward feeling of being exposed and vulnerable that makes then re-examine their position.

dwalker,
can I just say dammit I'm glad you joined! Well said. Why does my neighbor need to collect rocks from all over the world where he's gone climbing? Why do we do anything? Because it's our right and we're free to do so. People need to stop asking why for all this. Really the way I see it, you will never be able to fully prevent bad people from doing bad things. If John Doe is a law-abiding, sane, rational person and he goes out and buys a gun nothing will stop him from using that gun in an evil way. He has no history of mental illness, no history of violent crime, and there is absolutely no way to stop him from committing an evil act. Even if you took away guns and the legal right to own them, he'll find a way to do bad things... hell he might, as one said here the other day, hijack a bus and drive it off a cliff! The only way to prevent crime, really as far as I can tell, is to arm the good people and help persuade the bad that what they're about to do is a bad idea.

Ooops, I'm sorry, I used logic... don't tell the left! [Coffee]

How about we ban movies with violent content (because we obviously can't handle it)?


How about we ban games with violent content (because we obviously can't handle it)?


How about we ban news media with violent content (because we obviously can't handle it)?


This guy was obviously obsessed with a fictional character outside of reality. Does this mean we should censor all content because it might give somebody an idea? It is obvious to a rational person that you can't change human behavior by eliminating an object or an idea, and I doubt people want to start eliminating things that they enjoy because some people can't handle them.


Most people today don't understand why the founders sacrificed and died in a revolution. YES, I said REVOLUTION where the citizens took up arms against an oppressive government. These same ignorant people have no comprehension that this can happen again and we may need to fight for our rights again someday. That being said, the majority of the world's population don't live as we live. A socialist mindset is not capable of seeing that this country might not be wealthy in the future, and training and weapons is what is needed to defend a man's family.


Additionally, the cultural point should be stated. For many people, the AR-15 and rifles similar are used in rifle clubs and competition. Why should people give up what they enjoy because a few bad people misuse a tool. People misuse vehicles resulting in deaths every day with far more fatalities. This can be said for numerous items. The actual number of deaths resulting from firearms is actually pretty low.


Ultimately, a person who is set on killing people is going to kill people regardless of how it is done. If, and that is a big IF, gun access was restricted, a person bent on doing harm will find a way.


Finally, I find it ironic and kind of sad that 12 people dead because of a madman is a national tragedy (because guns were used) where people are pushing for the end of our freedoms and the loss of 14 people in one car accident barely hits the news when a truck was misused. Six more died in a chain reaction crash in NY. Right before this happened, Israel children were killed with a bomb. Even if gun grabbers could grab guns, do we want a madmen learning how to make IEDs that actually work; I would rather deal with the small arms fire. I remember Europe in the 80s. It was a monthly if not weekly occurrence that a bomb exploded and killed numerous people.


It is the responsibility of people to protect their family, and people should be honest with themselves about friends and family. If somebody I know is going off the deep end and is a threat to others, I will do something about it.


My question is always this when people talk about Gun Control...what do you hope to accomplish? You ASSume these people would be alive; you don't think something else would be used? What if they started throwing grenades into the crowd?

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Originally Posted by Mick-Boy

I usually use the Socratic method.

Who is responsible for your safety? (police)

Have you ever heard of Castle Rock V. Gonzales? (no)

So if not the police then who is responsible for your safety? (uncomfortable silence)

I don't look to "win" an argument with a person who hates guns. They don't think logically enough to be swayed by rational argument. Just leave them with that awkward feeling of being exposed and vulnerable that makes then re-examine their position.

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I like that too....

MED,
I won't quote you, but very well said! I have some bad news for people... in the last week more people died at the hands of the evil Taliban in Afghanistan than Americans to guns in the past MONTH. More people died from starvation in the Darfur Region of Sudan in the past month than Americans from guns in the last YEAR. Where is the outcry over these atrocities? Closer to home, more are being killed by the Cartels in Mexico than Americans by guns. Still nothing. People have some very fu*ked up perceptions and motivations.

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. (Thomas Jefferson, Encyclopedia of T. Jefferson, 318 [Foley, Ed., reissued 1967])

Look at the death toll over time from riots at sporting events outside the US. US sports nuts are relatively peaceful.

Most anti's have no global perspective. Just the last few weeks in Iraq, Syria, Sudan Halfghanistan are not cheerful.

Steve

I may need a hearing aid, but on 9news they just went over the gun laws nation wide by most restrictive state, most relaxed state.
CO falls some where in the middle, we have the most restrictive on machine guns and full auto.
And the part where I think I need hearing help
The news anchor some young guy say well it's comforting to hear the TRUE facts on our state. Pretty sure he was in agreement with just leave it alone.

quick, no time to search (in a debate and leaving work lol)

link for stats on gun related murders per year?
maybe a link for murders in other developed countries where gun laws are strict?

had somebody tell me that there are 10000 gun related murders per year, more then all the other devolped countries combined..

I've found the best way to convert antigun evangelists is to take them to a well run shooting range and teach them the basics of safety. Point out the other responsible gun owners following all the safety rules. Fear comes from ignorance, if you remove the fear, then logic can creep in.