Oath Keepers

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01-29-2013, 08:49
Ashton

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryjcom

You'd be pleasantly surprised. I know the Salvation Army CEO makes around $15K a year and there are others that make nothing

You're drinking the punch. Do you live in the ghetto where people shoot each other> Windsor does not qualify.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/charities.asp
01-29-2013, 08:58
Ashton

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryjcom

You'd be pleasantly surprised. I know the Salvation Army CEO makes around $15K a year and there are others that make nothing

So really. You don't know the salvation army CEO. You know his published salary is 15 a year and that other "volunteers" don't make anything for volunteering... When did people start getting paid for volunteering? I mean it's volunterring. Which I wont even google for a dictionary for your benefit.
01-29-2013, 10:56
tmleadr03

Oh lord do I wish I had thought of this tripe myself.

Lets think about this. The oath you take when you enlist: I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Hmmm. Lets see here. I have already taken an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. Why do I need to pay someone else to take an oath to uphold the oath. If I was going to keep the first oath, why do I need the second one to guarentee I will hold the first. If I was going to break the first, what is to say paying 20 bucks to take the second oath is going to keep me from breaking that one as well?

Then there is the implication that those who DONT take the second oath are more likely to break the oath. Well, fuck you asshole. Why is your oath better then mine just because you paid 20 bucks for it?

Personally I do not trust anyone who swears an oath to disobey their already sworn oath. This entire organization is a waste of time and money. Good lord, PT Barnum is right again.

Now lets dissect the orders they are refusing to obey.
1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.Would this be a lawful order? Depends, would being ordered to disarm Adam Lanza be a lawful order? Yup. Would door to door confiscation be a lawful order? No? Well, hell what is the point of the oathkeepers oath then? Isn't that already covered under my first oath?
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people Lets go back to lawful orders on this one.
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal. How about Hassan? Is he an American Citizen? Would he be considered to be being detained for a military tribunal? Is that ok? Would detaining him be against your second oath?
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state. Because we know that there is never any reason or need for martial law/state of emergency during say, a hurricane. During Katrina there was some serious issues I admit. But the second oath would not have saved us from those. During Sandy I distinctly recall reading about looting and rioting. Some martial law was perfectly acceptable for that.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty. Secession. Awesome topic and deserving its own thread. Odds of that happening? Between slim and none. Odds of the POTUS sending troops in this day and age to settle a secession issue? Also between slim and none. Economic sanctions would be way more effective.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps. Giant concentration camps. I think I read a book about this once. It was in the fiction section and it also involved zombies and tactical nuke deployed in Houston.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. See previous response.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control." WOOOOLVEREENS!!! I fucking loved that movie that happened to not be a documentary.
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies. Ok, come on. This one is already covered under the first oath and if that oath wont keep neither will a second one.
10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances. And again we go back to the first oath, that if it wont hold a second one wont do squat.

The entire notion that I need a second oath to guarantee that I will keep my first one is insulting to me. And it should be to most people who have taken the oath.

Ya'll need to read up on the Posse Comitatus Act.
01-29-2013, 10:58
Teufelhund

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashton

Are you just actually trying to recruit? Giving answers to frequently asked questions... Or are you just looking for someone to join with you?

I was answering questions that a few people have asked because I had the same ones back in September when I started this thread. As I said previously, I really do not care if someone joins OK or not. I'm not recruiting for anyone.

Just putting the invite out there for like-minded guys/gals to get together and have a beer and bullshit about guns.
01-29-2013, 11:25
Teufelhund

tmleadr03, I understand the cynicism and you may indeed be right (though I'm not sure what "second oath" you're talking about). If everyone who took the oath when they joined the service took it to heart like you and I did, there would be no need to remind anyone of it. That is simply not the case.

Again, I don't care if anyone joins OK, ever. Maintain your oath and that's good enough for me.

This is why I sent Oath Keepers a few bucks; because I want more of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY148rPm0DQ

So we'll have less of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCIQ33m8pE0&list=UU0RJJ_Wm7jyOU9eY10Lg cwA& index=40
01-29-2013, 13:00
HoneyBadger

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmleadr03

Oh lord do I wish I had thought of this tripe myself.

Lets think about this. The oath you take when you enlist: I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Hmmm. Lets see here. I have already taken an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. Why do I need to pay someone else to take an oath to uphold the oath. If I was going to keep the first oath, why do I need the second one to guarentee I will hold the first. If I was going to break the first, what is to say paying 20 bucks to take the second oath is going to keep me from breaking that one as well?

Then there is the implication that those who DONT take the second oath are more likely to break the oath. Well, fuck you asshole. Why is your oath better then mine just because you paid 20 bucks for it?

Personally I do not trust anyone who swears an oath to disobey their already sworn oath. This entire organization is a waste of time and money. Good lord, PT Barnum is right again.

Now lets dissect the orders they are refusing to obey.
1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.Would this be a lawful order? Depends, would being ordered to disarm Adam Lanza be a lawful order? Yup. Would door to door confiscation be a lawful order? No? Well, hell what is the point of the oathkeepers oath then? Isn't that already covered under my first oath?
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people Lets go back to lawful orders on this one.
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal. How about Hassan? Is he an American Citizen? Would he be considered to be being detained for a military tribunal? Is that ok? Would detaining him be against your second oath?
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state. Because we know that there is never any reason or need for martial law/state of emergency during say, a hurricane. During Katrina there was some serious issues I admit. But the second oath would not have saved us from those. During Sandy I distinctly recall reading about looting and rioting. Some martial law was perfectly acceptable for that.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty. Secession. Awesome topic and deserving its own thread. Odds of that happening? Between slim and none. Odds of the POTUS sending troops in this day and age to settle a secession issue? Also between slim and none. Economic sanctions would be way more effective.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps. Giant concentration camps. I think I read a book about this once. It was in the fiction section and it also involved zombies and tactical nuke deployed in Houston.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. See previous response.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control." WOOOOLVEREENS!!! I fucking loved that movie that happened to not be a documentary.
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies. Ok, come on. This one is already covered under the first oath and if that oath wont keep neither will a second one.
10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances. And again we go back to the first oath, that if it wont hold a second one wont do squat.

The entire notion that I need a second oath to guarantee that I will keep my first one is insulting to me. And it should be to most people who have taken the oath.

Ya'll need to read up on the Posse Comitatus Act.

You and Ashton are totally missing the point on this... You should not in any way be insulted or offended by this. The organization exists as a way to encourage those who took an oath to uphold it in all circumstances. Oathkeepers gives people who fully intend on keeping the oath a way to meet, organize, and spread the word. I too took an oath and I take it as seriously as you do, but I know others who have taken the oath who wouldn't second guess an order to fire upon US citizens.

The OathKeepers organization is not there to take your money or solicit you with a steady stream of mail (like the NRA-ILA). It is not about "taking a second oath". The organization exists to aid in organization and awareness, and to strengthen those who may not have the guts to stand up all by themselves.

I'm not going to give them any money, but I sure as hell intend to keep my oath until the day I die.

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