Can someone tell me the amount of debt Regan and the Bush's accumulated?

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

Yeh.. everything is someone else's fault. Nobody ever seems to take responsibility in this country.

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How do you dispute that the Democrats have passed no budgets, not even voting for their President's, as an assertion of "someone else's fault" ? Its a fact that the Democrats in both houses intentionally failed to pass a budget during the 2010 election cycle and its a fact that since the House has been controlled by the GOP that the House has passed budgets that the Senate - controlled by Democrats - won't pass even in amended form.

This failure to meet their most basic constitutional and statutory duty - that of adopting a budget - is simply a fact.

At no other time in US history have we cut taxes and gone to war. It was and is being proven today to be pure insanity. You all want to fix the debt and avoid a dollar melt down. Go back to the tax structures from Roosevelt till Reagan. Our economy was booming back then. The middle class was receiving pay increases that mirror the increases in productivity. After Reagan we went into astronomical debt and today it takes two income earners to earn what my father did in purchasing power in 1979. Reagan was the beginning of the end for the middle class. Time to learn from that mistake and move forward.

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Originally Posted by 10mm-man

Way to long!! We are stuck with this shit, and my son too.... getting sick of it fast..... Both sides blaming the other, when they are both doing it!

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What do you mean way too long?

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Originally Posted by nynco

At no other time in US history have we cut taxes and gone to war. It was and is being proven today to be pure insanity. You all want to fix the debt and avoid a dollar melt down. Go back to the tax structures from Roosevelt till Reagan. Our economy was booming back then. The middle class was receiving pay increases that mirror the increases in productivity. After Reagan we went into astronomical debt and today it takes two income earners to earn what my father did in purchasing power in 1979. Reagan was the beginning of the end for the middle class. Time to learn from that mistake and move forward.

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This makes no sense at all. You've associated things that are simply not associated and filled your comment with non sequiturs. Our economy has boomed since the Reagan era tax reforms as well. There were tax reforms in the JFK administration too.

If you've a specific tax proposal make it, but your vague belief that there was something special about pre-Reagan tax structure is nonsensical. Tax rates were higher, but applied to less income. Do you have any idea what the practical differences were?

Tax foundation refutes your claims rather handily.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/com...-bush-tax-cuts

No the economy boomed for one section of the US population. For the rest of us today it takes two wage earners to have the same purchasing power as one in 1979. I don't measure a boom by how the richest do. I look at the total picture, which the total pictures shows that the vast majority of the population did not feel the boom since Reagan one bit. Other than a boom as in broke.

Also At no other time in US history have we cut taxes and gone to war

That is a fact

Again, nynco, your claims are simply false. This class warfare rhetoric remains nonsense.

The reality was that after the George W. Bush tax rate cuts, the "rich" were paying a larger share of income tax than the lower income quintiles. Those tax rate changes actually increased their share of tax revenues.

I did not argue that but I could. So don't put words in my mouth. Also the class warfare thing, well that is your words. The facts are the facts, since 1980 wages for the vast majority of the population wages have not kept up with gains in productivity or cost of living. If that is class warfare well then they 1% won over 3 decades ago. No amount of crying that the other side is waging class war fare will change the facts.

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Originally Posted by nynco

I did not argue that but I could. So don't put words in my mouth. Also the class warfare thing, well that is your words. The facts are the facts, since 1980 wages for the vast majority of the population wages have not kept up with gains in productivity or cost of living. If that is class warfare well then they 1% won over 3 decades ago. No amount of crying that the other side is waging class war fare will change the facts.

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False, below is a chart of real disposable income per capita over the last half century.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2...229RX0?cid=110

Honestly, I don't trust that chart because the inflation index has been messed with to hide the buying power loss to the general public. The most glaring example is the cost of a house today in relation to average income. That number today is far worse than it was in 1979.

Also here is a chart to the metric I was talking about. You will see that wages kept up with productivity increases all the way till Reagan... then wages stagnated.
http://www.zompist.com/lib2.jpg

Pre-WW2 and immediately after the typical American Family did not use credit, nor did they have 2 cars, a TV in every room of the house, etc. We lived within our means, as the saying goes. If you did not work, you did not eat. Welfare was provided for by the Church, and healthcare was provided for the needy by the charity of the doctors.

What changed?

We became a credit based economy
Charity from doctors and other organizations went away when they figured out they would be sued for their kindness at any moment
Our propganda machine has convinced every single American that at 16 you are owed a newer model car, that children do not need to work in addition to study, and that its OK to be in debt.
Our welfare programs are no longer locally based, but a huge government entity that is played like a fine instrument by the dregs of our society.

It is a sincere mis-step to blame this on the politicians, when it is society itself that propagates this mentality.

Want to restore our economic might? Try family values and the idea that discipline is a cornerstone of society, and that includes the teaching of children to not be a waste of humanity. Stop blaming political parties and start looking around and blaming your neighbor who collects foodstamps and a disability check while riding around in a new Escalade. Become involved in your local community without expecting anything from it. Chastise, and I literally mean embarass the hell out of those who prey upon the system and when a Liberal whackjob is appalled that you spoke the truth, embarass them for being so weak minded as to think that giving people what they want is the answer, and that if it hurts your feelings to be called a name, or to be told to go get a job, well then perhaps you are better off living in the woods away from the rest of us.

But its time to stop this bullshit of claiming the two parties are the same. Conservatism and being a Republican are not the same as being a Liberal, and it is simply beyond stupid the way some of you attempt to justify blaming both parties. Do you understand how politics work? Because I get a sincere feeling that few of the third partiers and malcontents that comment in these threads have any idea of anything except to complain and spew out canned arguments. Having dealt with professional organizations, clubs, etc. for most of my life I have more knowledge than I ever wanted about politics and how one gets things done, so it is second nature to me to look into the heart of an issue and see the truth behind it before placing blame.