From 9News - Ammunition hampers firefighters at Monument blaze

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Originally Posted by 82ndShooter

I believe that Mythbusters already has done a segment on cooking off ammo.

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You watch too much TV

The way the ammo is stored has a lot to do with it. When our house burned down in 97, I had an unopened case of 22 lr in my bedroom closet. When the rounds cooked off, the up facing rounds shot like out of a firearm. The shell had no where to go because it had the weight of the rest of the case behind it. They had enough velocity to permeate the metal roof of the house. I had pictures at one time of the sunlight shining through all of the holes, but it has been misplaced after 15 years. One firefighter said he hadn't heard a firefight like that since Vietnam. Ammunition in metal mags turned the mags into twisted pieces of metal. The rounds were were most concerned about were loaded in revolvers and other firearms. We lost 32 firearms in the fire, I don't know how much ammo and about 15 lbs of black powder. The explosions were heard from up to 15 miles away. All five members of my family are competitive shooters, so it was a disaster loosing the ammo and guns.

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Originally Posted by liberty19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOX...yer_detailpage

This is a video from SAAMI on the subject. It is very informative but I cried when I watched it because of all the ammo they destroyed.

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Over 400,000 rounds! [Cry]

Ammo? You guys have ammo? Where can I get some?

First the guns were the problem. Now the ammo will get you too.

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Originally Posted by encorehunter

The way the ammo is stored has a lot to do with it. When our house burned down in 97, I had an unopened case of 22 lr in my bedroom closet. When the rounds cooked off, the up facing rounds shot like out of a firearm. The shell had no where to go because it had the weight of the rest of the case behind it. They had enough velocity to permeate the metal roof of the house. I had pictures at one time of the sunlight shining through all of the holes, but it has been misplaced after 15 years. One firefighter said he hadn't heard a firefight like that since Vietnam. Ammunition in metal mags turned the mags into twisted pieces of metal. The rounds were were most concerned about were loaded in revolvers and other firearms. We lost 32 firearms in the fire, I don't know how much ammo and about 15 lbs of black powder. The explosions were heard from up to 15 miles away. All five members of my family are competitive shooters, so it was a disaster loosing the ammo and guns.

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Did you have good insurance on the guns, or how did homeowners handle that?

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Originally Posted by BushMasterBoy

Black powder is classified as a explosive. Sometimes it is even used in mining. It was almost exclusively used to mine before dynamite was invented. Some people I know purposely store black powder in their gun safe. They put a label on the gunsafe stating that the safe contains black powder and will explode if a cutting torch is used. The stuff will explode even if just struck by sparks from a grinder. Black powder can also be detonated by static electricity. Like reading about black powder? see link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder


http://hunting.about.com/od/blackpow...lackpowder.htm

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^This comment piqued my interest. I don't store powder in my safe, but I'd like to know if this is true or not anyway.

I think our resident chemist, SA Friday, should chime in here because I am having a hard time believing a gun safe will explode like a 500lb bomb if it has black powder in it. It was used in mining many moons ago, but a safe bomb?

High explosives (HE) used for blasting and bombs burn (change from solid to gas) with such intense heat and high rate of speed that they actually produce shock waves that propagate through and exert pressure on, any surrounding materials. A much faster rate of speed than black powder. To the best of my knowledge, HE classification has a minimum burn rate cutoff of around 3300fps and black powder unconfined is around 1300fps. For a point of reference, DET cord detonates from 7,000-8,000 fps.

Unlike smokeless powder that needs to be confined to produce high pressures, Black powder burns basically at the same rate of speed in a confined space or not according to SAAMI, but it still doesn't detonate.

Either way, unless the safe is FULL of black powder, I have a hard time believing a typical amount of black powder would produce enough pressure in a gun safe to make it a bomb. But I've been wrong many times before...

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Originally Posted by Leobj

"MONUMENT, Colo. (AP) - Firefighters battling a blaze at a home in Monument say they were hampered by exploding ammunition as they struggled to put the fire out."

So, the way I read this, the firefighters may not have gone (probably didn't) into the house while the ammo was cooking off. I did a search here and found multiple topics on ammunition storage. Most suggested ammo cans, file cabinets, etc. I also saw the thread with the video on how ammunition in standard packages (up to a full pallet) is pretty safe even in a fire because without being in a chamber & barrel there's so little containment of the burning gasses that there is very little velocity imparted to the case and bullet.

So, while there may be little real danger from ammunition in a house fire it is very likely to be against fire department policy for the firefighters to enter a burning house with ammo cooking off. I don't see ammo cans, file cabinets, etc. being an effective fire/heat barrier to keep ammo from cooking off in a fire. First, is that a correct assumption?

Second & most importantly, what is a cost effective (read, "relatively cheap") way to store ammo so it will not cook off in a house fire. Or at least slow it way down...

Mods - I considered putting this in the Ammunition forum but thought it might be of broader interest than to just those who watch that forum.

Thanks.

Leo

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I looked at a couple of safes that were basically the same save for the fire rating. When I took apart the liner of both I noticed that the one with a fire rating had standard drywall panels lining the inside of it. So there's your answer for a cheap fire locker for your ammo. Whatever you store it in just line it with drywall and that will help increase the amount of fire/heat it can take and hopefully buy you some more time before the fire dept arrives to start putting out the blaze. Obviously if it takes too long and the drywall fails and they start cooking off you're in the same boat but that extra time bought may make all the difference between saving your home and watching it burn to the ground over bureaucratic (i.e. no basis) rules.

Thanks, Jer. Just what I was looking for. & I hope the drywall never gets tested...

Leo