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The system itself should last at least 20 years. With Solar City, you sign a 20 yr contract and during that time, they'll warranty and service the system. If forces of nature cause damage to the panels, homeowners insurance should cover that damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
Solar City says they insure the house and equipment too, and service it if there is damage or lack of performance. They pretty much take care of the whole solar system, 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman
so then whats the catch? there is always a catch?Quote:
Originally Posted by gnihcraes
You're paying on it for 20 years and a 2.9% increase each year I believe. (still less than Excel)Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
You're not going to get the incentives for going solar, I believe they keep those.
I'll get a double check on everything in the morning when I meet with the sales lady again.
Please let us know how your meeting goes. I don't want to get into politics and all that, but I'm very interested in this whole concept.Quote:
Originally Posted by gnihcraes
I will look for changes in IREA then. I have the perfect south facing slope on my roof, no trees or larger homes casting shadows on it at all.
i know of several homes in bailey that have solar and would be in IREAs system, the only thing i know about IREA is that there are no incentives paid to install like there would be with xcel.
Ok, met with the solar city gal again, the wife has heard the sales pitch. We'll probably go with it, but have to discuss it a bit. I'll also get a few friends opinions. below are the portions of the quotes I received.
The piece everyone seems to leave out of the discussions are "My Excel Bill is only $8!" Ok, now add in the Solar charges monthly and you're paying $70 a month. So yes, Excel is low, but you're still paying someone for electricity. (solar company)
She couldn't get the updated photo into the quote, but I'll use the house only, front and back roofs, east/west. I've been looking during different parts of the day and I get sun most of the day.
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/...aes/solar1.jpg
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/...aes/Solar2.jpg
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/...aes/solar3.jpg
id be most interested in just buying it up front if it would actually last a long time. but the costs are probably too high. if you live where the county allows it a small wind turbine can actually provide most of your energy for 16k or so. its not bad over the long term, but of course most counties don't allow it.
Well, outright purchase of the system, is only a return on the money at %2. You can invest it for 20 years at a better rate, right?
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/...aes/solar4.jpg
for saving just $48 bucks a month i am not sure it is worth it. the advantage is you still have power when there is a ppower outage. i guess that would be worth it.
i am curious though, IREA is charging .1231 per KWH. I wonder if the costs were the same size system then this would make our savings 100/month.
It's a savings, but not quite what I was expecting to hear. So....what about SolarCity putting on a new roof?
They get to keep the incentives and lock their customers into a 20-year deal. How many other subscription based companies would like to know they've got a customer for 20 years? ;-)
That's not accurate. There's still a dependency on the electrical grid. It's in the contract language posted earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockhound
No idea on the new roof, I changed the plan here to go with just the house, which has a fairly new roof. The garage was part of the first quote, which would need a new roof before putting down the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
Actually no. When there is a power outage a solar customer is with out power as well. They don't want the xcell techs to tap into a line they expect to be dead and find power.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockhound
Good question. Makes sense, I wonder about all the disconnect switches they installed on my neighbors. Can you kill the Main on the house and then get the inverter up and running? Hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmleadr03
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmleadr03
Man, I was going to come in here and comment about some other comments addressing when the system pays for itself. I was going to say, "When does a hot tub pay for itself?" and then continue with the first time everyone has no power but you, is when it pays for itself. While I see the safety of the Xcel techs, kind of ruins it for me.
I'll find out about the power outage question from my neighbor.
Things that were noted from the meeting this morning:
All of the engineering, install, monitoring is done by their own employees (solar city), no contracted out folks.
Production Guarantee, they pay if it under produces, even if a bad year and the clouds were out 50% of the time.
Excel charges x2 summer months rate, Tier 2 apparently?
PPA True up at end of year if the system produces more than used.
If your usage goes up, you pay excel for the energy used beyond the solar system, but this keeps you from the Tier 2 costs they charge.
Personally I'm looking for something with a big up front cost but that makes you basically self sufficient unless you go over production. Probably doesn't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmleadr03
you just need the transfer switch
I have got that already... cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockhound
We actually had 3 options when we went with Solar City. We could do the $0.071/kwh + 2.9% increase per year with no money out of pocket which would result in a $62/mo bill to Solar City. The second option was to put down $2k and pay a fixed $0.079/kwh over the 20 years of the contract, $58/mo payable to SC. The third, which we did, was to pay $9500 down and we don't pay electricity for the 20 years of the contract. It should average about $0.042/kwh. Unless we go over our allotted average usage at the end of the year, we don't pay anything. If we produce more than what we use, we'll get credit back from Xcel. I'm not sure if the second and third options are still available. We signed our contract in December. We should reap the benefits in 10 years (come out even).Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
That's when my neighbor across the street expects to become net positive on his outlay, 10 years. He bought his equipment when the incentives were most beneficial.
I'm pretty sure I won't be in this house that long.
How do you like everything otherwise? Good? Bad? Any roof or house issues with it installed? Rain hitting gutters correctly? Snow sliding off in slabs when the sun warms it up?Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman
You're essentially leasing the solar company space on your roof and getting a bit of an advantage to not paying the utility company as much by paying less per kWH. The system is owned by the solar company.
Are you able to claim an income tax credit for the installation of solar, or does that only happen when you buy the equipment up front?
The installation on the system was good. They had some wiring issues in the inverters when they first installed the meters, but that was quickly resolved. We had the panels installed on my barn-style garage because the roof on our old house will probably need replacing in <10 yrs. The garage was built in November. The second pitch on the barn style roof is pretty steep, so there isn't very much snow accumulation on that side. The panels actually seem to catch the snow and just melts instead of coming down in slabs. Rain hits the gutters properly AFAIK. They put squirrel resistant mesh between the panels and the roof to prevent critters from getting behind the panels to chew them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by gnihcraes
I don't have a current picture, but this is one my wife took during the install in April:
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...psb2c0a8cf.jpg
For reference, the picture is facing east. There is a set of panels on the top east pitch that cannot be seen from this angle.
That's correct. I don't think we can claim a tax credit because we don't own the panels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
how does the lease transfer if the home is sold?
also looking at your numbers your system is not nearly big enough for my usage.
If you decide to sell you house, you have 3 options. 1) Transfer the panels/lease to your new location (I think you have to pay for that). 2) Buy the panels and sell them with the house. 3) Transfer the lease to the new owners at no charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockhound
I think #2 is probably the best way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockhound
They will size the system based on your usage and usable roof area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
The problem with buying your own system vs a 20 year contract on something like this is the rate that technology is changing. In 20 years, we could (and probably will) see tremendous changes in the efficiency of solar panels. Right now, you're pretty lucky if you can get 22% efficiency out of your solar panels, but some new technologies have produced as high as 47% efficiency in a lab environment.
Just my speculation based on what I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see commercially available panels available for the same price you'd pay now with 30%+ efficiency in 10 years or less. The real upside to that is that the best stuff now will be dirt cheap in 10 years.
Cars keep changing too, TV, phones. Keep waiting and you'll never find the right time to jump in on things. Good or bad. Risk we take.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnihcraes
Exactly. My smart phone is now dumb compared to this years line up. But it is only one year old.
figured that, but based on my usage i am not sure we can get enough panels to offset the IREA bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman
Well my point was that I think now is not quite the right time to jump in if you want to be self-sufficient at a reasonable price. As I said, it is pure speculation, but my personal decision is to wait a few more years on this one. Just like flash memory 5 years ago was super expensive: You would pay $40 for a 1 GB (class 1) SD card, and now you can get a (class 10) 32 GB SDXC card for $30. Besides, who knows what kind of subsidies solar power will have in the future...
If you do that you will never enter the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
By the end of next year I am sure we will have 1TB SD cards for what we pay for 16GB now at the rate they are going. So now isn't the time either by your definition.
Maybe I'm just not being clear. I think there WILL be an appropriate time to enter the market, but that time has not yet come.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmleadr03
With my example above, I recently bought several 64GB class 10 SD cards because the technology has advanced enough and the price has come down enough for it to make sense for me to purchase them. Maybe in a few years solar technology will be at that "sweet spot" where technology has advanced enough to meet my needs, while the price is low enough to meet my needs. Of course that purchase point is different for each individual and depends greatly on what their goals and expectations are. My goals and expectations were to be able to use the SD cards as ultra portable hard drives, and even though we've had 64GB flash memory devices for a few years now, the price point was too high for me to justify their purchase until recently.
Same thing applies to solar. If your goal is to offset some of the cost of your electric bill, then from what I've read above, there are some reasonable options for doing that and they are available now. If your goal is to completely power your own home for less than $15,000 I don't think there is any point on the technology vs price curve that will meet your goal at this time, but as technology changes and prices drop, sometime in the future (near future) it will be possible to meet your goal.
As solar panel efficiency is improved, our appliances and devices that consume electricity also become more efficient so that there's less demand.
Photovoltaic technology has been around for a long time. There's big money in making it more efficient....and we still haven't improved that much. Higher efficiencies are usually the result of using more exotic materials and/or construction methods and the cost increases substantially. The trade-off is usually less efficiency but at much less cost so that the break-even point is 10 years out instead of 20 or 30.
No more timeshare offers please. My cynicism is firmly back in place. [Coffee]
When this gets incorporated into solar cells it will be a game changer.
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/technolog...-material.html
Cool stuff!Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehaus
and.... carbon nanotubes? [Dunno]
If it helps any, I do know of a person, who went completely off the grid out in Brighton, he still has to supplement with excel and propane heat. He never was able to completely go off grid. (running a normal household) Sure you can cut back to nearly nothing all the way around and probably make things work.