Lim 99% sure the gfi is before the switch. I'll get some pics of the gfi tomorrow. It's operating properly though.Quote:
Originally Posted by thvigil11
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Lim 99% sure the gfi is before the switch. I'll get some pics of the gfi tomorrow. It's operating properly though.Quote:
Originally Posted by thvigil11
For shits sake lets simplify this.
1. Test constant hot to neutral. Constant hot is the black wire attached to both switches. One lead on the black and one on the white. Do you get 120V? If so step 2
a. If you do not get 120v your problem is before the switch.
2. Turn on the switch and test switch leg to neutral. Do you get 120V? Switch leg is the other wire on the switch.
a. If you do not get 120v throw switch in the trash and get a new one.
b. If you do get 120v the problem is either the wire underground or the light fixture.
Most pools have a deck box somewhere that the cable from the wet niche fixture terminates in. If you turn the switch on you should get proper voltage. If the spa light works fine I suspect your problem is after the GFCI.
1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/y...image.jpg5.jpg
2.
http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/y...image.jpg8.jpg
I'll look for a box in the bushes behind the light tomorrow, hopefully my problem is in there.
"WouId it be possible that there is an issue at the gfi causing this? My understanding is that the white, green, black hot wires are coming from there."
Now I'm confused. if your two wire is bringing in the power than your 3 wire would then be your switch legs. Therefore the black spliced jumper is wrong. Unless I'm missing something, you need to verify which is your power supply.
Lets as just disregard that comment for the time being.Quote:
Originally Posted by jslo
No you are missing something. Power in and 2 switch legs out.Quote:
Originally Posted by jslo
But if the 2 wire is bringing the power in, why is the black from the 3 wire jumping across both switches?
Wired so that you have to turn the right switch on to power the left. Stop asking why. It's likely the previous owners "improvements"Quote:
Originally Posted by jslo
We have already covered this part and that's not how it's wired. . Left switch is first in line, jumper is not on the switched power. The issue is the red wire heading out to the light on the top of the left switch which goes from 36v(off) to 85v(on).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf202
Does les the fact that 85+36 = 121 point to the problem by any chance ?
Just did some reading about phantom voltage and it showing up in underground wiring that is run through conduit. Any sense to that? Or should I just stay the course and look for the box in the am to see if there is a clear answer ?
Doesn't your last picture show 120v on the switch when it is on? If so the problem is beyond the switch as Sparky already said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newracer
Yep, confusing stuff for me. I was looking at this pic
http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/y...age.jpg1_2.jpg
Pull all of it and start fresh. You're spending more time troubleshooting it than having it work. Been there before. Who knows how or what they did in those pipes.
It's probably something like water in the j box for the light. The last time I rewired a pool light the cord that came with it was 25' or so.
If you've got an air compressor sometimes you can have someone use a blowgun in the conduit and listen for the air coming out.
Maybe its a dumb question but are you getting power to the bulb socket and have you verified the bulb is good? Sometimes those sockets corrode
Great idea with the compressor, the landscaping is pretty thick so that may do the trick. Great idea!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf202
Bulb has been checked and works, it's new as well but I did check it. I think I checked power at the socket but can't remember. I'll do that today as well.
I'm still thinking your problem is the 3 wire going out to the bulb. The black and red are sharing a common. At some point that black needs to be splitting off to your power source and the red should be going to the bulb. So somewhere that common (white) is getting split to go with both wires. There should be a J box wherever that split is. (or it splits at the bulb junction). My money is on there being an issue there at that junction (corrosion). Usually buried wire in conduit is fairly stable (unless someone has been digging)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotchef181818
Your getting weird voltages in this pic because you are not using your meter correctly.
It is very difficult to distinguish the line/load on this connection. First, you need to know which lines are hot and which ones are not. You have two separate black, white, and green wire leads coming from each conduit. Check to see if either or both are hot by connecting your meter to the black and white wires. Your whites being the neutral; you will need to remove the jumper to do this with the switches in the off position. Also, I would check the red and a white to verify if it is hot or cold. If one lead is cold and the other is hot, then the wire nut connecting the two whites is good. I think this was mentioned, but you should have a pig tail from the green at the wire nut to the bottom connections on the switches.
This is completely a guess since I am not there doing the testing, but I would think that the conduit on the right is the hot line. If the right switch is turned on, the jumper supplies power to the black wire on the left and provides power to one of the sets of lights. If the left switch is turned on, the red wire is made hot and provides power to the other sets of lights. If the switches are good, your break is farther down the line. However, I would test this by doing what I suggested above.
The line and load wires have been identified, the black on the left is hot, red goes to the light that doesn't work, black on right goes to the spa that does work.Quote:
Originally Posted by MED
Has anyone in this thread thrown the idea out of hiring a licensed professional? Obviously OP is not well versed in this field and after 100 posts(some helpful some not) it still hasn't been diagnosed. That's no dig on the OP just sometimes you gotta know when to call a professional.
The thought has crossed my mind many times during this process. Electrical is a weakness of mine and I saw this issue as a possibility to learn. I'm only off till next Monday so I'm running out of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by hghclsswhitetrsh
Found the box, nowhere near where I thought it would be. It was behind my pool filter. very difficult to take pics back there so bear with me.
http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/y...age.jpg1_4.jpg
http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/y...age.jpg3_2.jpg
http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/y...age.jpg2_3.jpg
What a cluster fuck. Your red wire being capped off is odd. It looks like it should go to the black one under the yellow nut. The white under the yellow would have to be tied into the rest of the whites.
Makes me think that it was capped for a reason.
Does the hole in the top go straight thru?
So the red that is supposed to go to the light isn't connected to anything, that is why it doesn't work.
I question the white connected to the black.
The white and black that are connected together probably go to the light and where disconnected for a reason.
When we moved in I had a pool guy look at everything and he said the light was tripping the gfi because of water in the light, he may have unhooked it as a preventative measure. The light has been dried out, replaced the bulb, and new gasket installed.
Im thinking the yellow nut is his if he did anything.. My plan was to put the red wire under the yellow cap with black but unsure what to do with the neutral.
NoQuote:
Originally Posted by Wulf202
Hotchef, I want to personally thank you for this thread. I plan to use it to show my wife if we are ever in danger of actually getting a pool like she is always talking about.
This is is the easiest part of owning a pool. I couldn't live here without it but my god, every day it's something. Some days it's chemicals, every day it's cleaning, then there's filter maintenance, electrical maintenance, upkeep on the motors, then you toss in a heater, a fence surrounding it and the salt generator. It never stops needing attention. I will say that my 2 yr old absolutely loves it and goes in daily. If we didn't have one at the house we'd probably never go to the pool due to having a 5 month old as well. It just keeps me busy as hell and electrical is a night,are for me. I've figured everything else out so far. I can't fix what I can't see though, I've never gotten along with electricity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Wulf, I'm thinking about adding the red to the nut to the left. Theory is that he took it off that bundle so that if I threw the switch I would trip the gfi and take out all the outlets on the patio every time. Maybe I'm nuts. What do you think?
Also, if this works and the light comes on the next step is to install back in the niche. I would do that with the power off just to be safe. Then power back on, turn on the light. How the hell do I make sure the water isn't electrified ? Or would the gfi pop if there was water present in the circuit?
Connect red to black and put the white in with the other whites. Youll have the spare yellow wire nut the pool guy put in. Fire it up just long enough to check the light. If the pool light is out of the water it will cook the gasket
The gfci will trip the instant the power is on and water hits hot wires. That's why its there. It might tingle for a half second at worst. Not much of a safety concern.
Thats what I was thinking. I'll let you know in a bit. Baby just woke upQuote:
Originally Posted by Wulf202
This. Picture sums it up perfectly. Red is your switch leg coming from the switch box. Was capped to prevent shorting. The center conduit, I assume, is going to the light. Those two wires should have been capped individually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf202
Before you do anything, you could verify this all, by hooking up the switch. In the on position, you should be able to read 120V on the red wire in this new jbox. Once you are sure that power is reaching this part, then you could proceed to put everything together. Hooking the red to the black on the center conduit and tying the common in with the other commons should get power to the light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thvigil11
Good idea, I'll check that first. Should be able to get into this in about an hours.
Thanks x1,000,000 everyone.
No sweat. Let us know in "an hours" [Coffee]
Haha, I've been watching the kids while off recovering from back surgery(kinda distracted).Quote:
Originally Posted by thvigil11
I have seen the light!!!!! Putting it all back together right now. Thanks a ton guys.