Alec Baldwin Shoots two, Kills One

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Originally Posted by clodhopper

... is like trying to blame your mechanic because you drove over a guy.

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Specious argument.

If the mechanic was negligent, you would still assume all fault because you're a stand-up guy?

When you have brakes put on your car, do you pull off the wheels to make sure they were installed correctly?

Baldwin is a low IQ meatball. He is openly anti-gun, so it is unlikely he has ever had the inclination to seek proper firearm training. There were people on set that were hired and paid to make sure this didn't happen.

It is very unlikely he knows how to check if a single action revolver is loaded and with what rounds.

Yes, ultimately Baldwin was at fault as he pulled the trigger.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

No, you probably wouldn't have been arrested either. There were tons of witnesses that said this was an obvious accident...albeit negligent. The fact he had no criminal intent will play a huge part in whether he's charged with an offense. I think he should be but it's not up to me. It's very common in a situation like this for charges to be brought later or not at all without an arrest ever being made.

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There is sure to be a civil suit.

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Originally Posted by eddiememphis

There is sure to be a civil suit.

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Exactly. And that's where Baldwin might REALLY be in trouble. Even if he's charged and convicted it's likely he wouldn't even do jail time. The civil litigation fallout from this will last pretty much the rest of his life.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Exactly. And that's where Baldwin might REALLY be in trouble. Even if he's charged and convicted it's likely he wouldn't even do jail time. The civil litigation fallout from this will last pretty much the rest of his life.

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Don't be so sure.

OJ is doing just fine these days.

Balwin is likely to have insurance to cover him professionally as the producer and personally with liability umbrellas and the like.

I'd put money his civil issues will be far worse than his criminal issues.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

I'd put money his civil issues will be far worse than his criminal issues.

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I surely hope so!

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

The civil litigation fallout from this will last pretty much the rest of his life.

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Hmm....

Ted Kennedy.
Hillary Clinton.
OJ Simpson.

I'm sure you could probably find a few who lost a substantial amount financially, too, if you looked.

Do you think OJ Simpson would rather have: A) Endured a wrongful death legal suit, or B) Not had to endure a wrongful death legal suit?

I got sued for $17M. I didn't even kill anyone. As a matter of fact, I didn't do anything wrong. And even though I won the case and was exonerated it was about 2 years of hell. And the 7 days of sitting in a federal courthouse were not pleasant, either. If you've never been there, you have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Do you think OJ Simpson would rather have: A) Endured a wrongful death legal suit, or B) Not had to endure a wrongful death legal suit?

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I don't know. I don't care. I do not waste my time or energy thinking about OJ a little bit. If eddiememphis hadn't mentioned him ^^^ I wouldn't have included him on my list.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

I got sued for $17M. I didn't even kill anyone. As a matter of fact, I didn't do anything wrong. And even though I won the case and was exonerated it was about 2 years of hell. And the 7 days of sitting in a federal courthouse were not pleasant, either. If you've never been there, you have no idea.

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I haven't been there. I have no idea.

I have, and it leaves scars even if you win.

In the totality too, we had his stunt double that had a live fire accident just 5 days prior to this fatal one. We had crew members that had already walked off the set citing firearm safety concerns. It was an incredibly low budget movie (7 million) that refused to hire the team requested by a qualified prop master, so he rejected the job for safety concerns.

Maybe screen actors guild provides blanket insurance or something, but I wouldn't be surprised if they skimped on an insurance policy for the production itself. Like I said before, the fact they already had a live fire incident 5 days prior makes it one of the biggest WTF moments of the year and pretty much absolves any excuse any of them had to be so brazen, including Baldwin. He had serious reason to doubt the call "cold gun" before pointing it directly at people and pulling the trigger.

Yes, it'll end up being a civil nightmare that will torture her survivors as much as it will any of them. Thank goodness for our middle-ages fuckup of a court system we keep around.

John Landis was prosecuted (unsuccessfully) for the helicopter accident that killed Vic Morrow and 2 children while shooting for "The Twilight Zone" movie. It's all a matter of perspective but to my mind, Baldwin is far more personally culpable than Landis was. Landis was telling the helicopter pilot to go lower, resulting in an unsafe condition, but the helicopter pilot could have refused the direction on the basis of safety. Baldwin was given a firearm he was told was cold but it was his decision to practice his draw without checking it for himself and his decision to do so while there were people in front of him. Still a difficult prosecution but IMO he should be investigated and prosecuted simply based on the Landis precedent.

3:1 the authorities search long and hard to find a reason to NOT prosecute him.

Baldwin is a Hollywood blowhard and deep Democrat. There will be nothing done with him. The other people involved will likely be screwed. Several of them. So many things done wrong.

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

John Landis was prosecuted (unsuccessfully) for the helicopter accident that killed Vic Morrow and 2 children while shooting for "The Twilight Zone" movie. It's all a matter of perspective but to my mind, Baldwin is far more personally culpable than Landis was. Landis was telling the helicopter pilot to go lower, resulting in an unsafe condition, but the helicopter pilot could have refused the direction on the basis of safety. Baldwin was given a firearm he was told was cold but it was his decision to practice his draw without checking it for himself and his decision to do so while there were people in front of him. Still a difficult prosecution but IMO he should be investigated and prosecuted simply based on the Landis precedent.

3:1 the authorities search long and hard to find a reason to NOT prosecute him.

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Randal Miller was convicted for the death of a film crew member.

"In 2015, he pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter in connection with the death of camera assistant Sarah Jones during the filming of Midnight Rider, which he was directing and producing.[1] Miller served one year in jail and is currently completing nine years of probation.[2] Miller is the first film director in history to be convicted in the U.S. for the death of a cast or crew member.[3]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Miller

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Originally Posted by colorider

Baldwin is a Hollywood blowhard and deep Democrat. There will be nothing done with him. The other people involved will likely be screwed. Several of them. So many things done wrong.

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Like.

Baldwin will get off. I can imagine a large settlement with little coverage and the whole thing swept under the rug. Talking to the press verboten as a stipulation of the settlement. The screwing of others kept to a minimum as it will draw attention. Baldwin will blame the gun. Not himself for pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger. Not the armorer or other prop people. The gun made him do it. Baldwin is a bigger tool than any firearm. So much wrong.

I feel that Baldwin should be charged with negligence resulting in the death of one person and the injury of another person. He has been in enough movies where he handled firearms to know what safe practices are. He accepted a loaded firearm from a person and did not follow the most basic safety measures. There is plenty of blame to go around regarding negligence from a host of people but as the producer and star, he was most negligent. He didn’t follow safety protocol, he cocked the weapon, he pointed it at a living human being, he pulled the trigger.
Alex Baldwin was negligent and should face prison time for killing a woman.

What would happen to you or I if we were at the range, someone handed you a loaded firearm and told you it was not loaded and you pointed it at the person next to you and pulled the trigger killing that person? Do you think even for a moment that you could use the excuse that the person who handed you the gun said it wasn’t loaded so you are not at fault for the death of another person?

Curious if it was a black powder cartridge?

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Originally Posted by wctriumph

He has been in enough movies where he handled firearms to know what safe practices are.

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What are the safe practices for movie sets?

I don't know.

As I stated elsewhere in this thread, meatball is staunchly anti-gun. He is very unlikely to have had training with actual firearms.

Everyone on a range has live ammo, and acts accordingly. (Almost everyone).

Actors rarely have to think for themselves. They are told where to stand and walk, how to stand and walk. They are told what to say and how to say it. They have dozens of people around them to make them look their best and receive umwarrented amounts of praise when they do so correctly. It is little wonder that when they open their vapid mouths off-set, what comes out is often lunacy.

Your dog is well trained and sits on command, and after years of being praised when he does as he is instructed, you tell him to sit and he does so on a cactus, is it the dog's fault for not checking where his ass is to land?

Ultimately, yes. Some blame must also go to the idiot that told the pooch to sit as well.

https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-ba...th-1234863531/

The crew member responsible for overall safety on the set of Rust has admitted he didn’t properly check the gun that Alec Baldwin fired on October 21 and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.

Affiant learned after the gun was fired, David Halls picked up the firearm from a pew inside the church, and took it to the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez). Hannah then was told to “open” the gun so he could see what was inside. David advised he could only remember seeing at least four “dummy” casings with the hole on the side, and one without the hole. He advised this round did not have the “cap” on it and was just the casing. David advised the incident was not a deliberate act. When Affiant asked David about the safety protocol on set in regards to firearms, he advised, “I check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there’s no live fire, she (Hannah) opens the hatch and spins the drum, and I say cold gun on set.” David advised when Hannah showed him the firearm before continuing rehearsal, he could only remember seeing three rounds. He advised he should have checked all of them, but didn’t, and couldn’t recall if she spun the drum.

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Originally Posted by wctriumph

What would happen to you or I if we were at the range, someone handed you a loaded firearm and told you it was not loaded and you pointed it at the person next to you and pulled the trigger killing that person? Do you think even for a moment that you could use the excuse that the person who handed you the gun said it wasn?t loaded so you are not at fault for the death of another person?

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Bingo!

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Originally Posted by eddiememphis

Actors rarely have to think for themselves. They are told where to stand and walk, how to stand and walk. They are told what to say and how to say it. They have dozens of people around them to make them look their best and receive umwarrented amounts of praise when they do so correctly.

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Hmm. I acted and directed in neighborhood theater for years. Even in those small productions, what you posted is inaccurate. Actors have many many opportunities to give input and suggest changes. (Even to me and I was a very demanding director.)

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It is little wonder that when they open their vapid mouths off-set, what comes out is often lunacy.

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For Hollywood actors this is 96% accurate. (Allowing for the few Hollywood actors with some smarts.)

So many Hollywood dipshits, celebrities and pro athletes skate from crimes because of who they are. Happens all the time.

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Originally Posted by eddiememphis

Affiant learned after the gun was fired, David Halls picked up the firearm from a pew inside the church, and took it to the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez). Hannah then was told to ?open? the gun so he could see what was inside. David advised he could only remember seeing at least four ?dummy? casings with the hole on the side, and one without the hole. He advised this round did not have the ?cap? on it and was just the casing. David advised the incident was not a deliberate act. When Affiant asked David about the safety protocol on set in regards to firearms, he advised, ?I check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there?s no live fire, she (Hannah) opens the hatch and spins the drum, and I say cold gun on set.? David advised when Hannah showed him the firearm before continuing rehearsal, he could only remember seeing three rounds. He advised he should have checked all of them, but didn?t, and couldn?t recall if she spun the drum.

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Is it just me or does this description just seem like they are overcomplicating things. How about NO LIVE AMMO ON THE SET?

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Originally Posted by eddiememphis

https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-ba...th-1234863531/

The crew member responsible for overall safety on the set of Rust has admitted he didn’t properly check the gun that Alec Baldwin fired on October 21 and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.

Affiant learned after the gun was fired, David Halls picked up the firearm from a pew inside the church, and took it to the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez). Hannah then was told to “open” the gun so he could see what was inside. David advised he could only remember seeing at least four “dummy” casings with the hole on the side, and one without the hole. He advised this round did not have the “cap” on it and was just the casing. David advised the incident was not a deliberate act. When Affiant asked David about the safety protocol on set in regards to firearms, he advised, “I check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there’s no live fire, she (Hannah) opens the hatch and spins the drum, and I say cold gun on set.” David advised when Hannah showed him the firearm before continuing rehearsal, he could only remember seeing three rounds. He advised he should have checked all of them, but didn’t, and couldn’t recall if she spun the drum.

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The TLDR version:


Baldwin pays off crew member to avoid manslaughter charge.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

I'd put money his civil issues will be far worse than his criminal issues.

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Not taking that bet.

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Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo

The TLDR version:


Baldwin pays off crew member to avoid manslaughter charge.

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This. Halls is taking the dive for Baldwin.

https://www.koat.com/article/gun-use...erque/38085703

"That firearm was a F.lli Pietta long Colt 45 revolver," said Sheriff Adan Mendoza, at a news conference on Wednesday."

I was close. See post #76. I said a Colt SAA in .45 Colt.

Was it a black powder load? All I want to know.

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Originally Posted by earplug

Was it a black powder load? All I want to know.

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I really doubt it. There's been some reports of mixed ammunition cartridges and target practice in "down time", and it's only a 7 million dollar budget, they would've been using whatever was easy, fast, and available with a 24 year old armorer, it probably came from Wal-Mart. I'm sure it was set to be as historically accurate as Star Wars - IMO After Baldwin is paid it sounds like a McDonalds drive through salary remained to finish the movie. Lol.

I agree with FoxArt. This piece of crap was unlikely to be historically accurate, and the green haired girl in charge of the guns doesn't strike me as the type load her own rounds so that the three people that actually waste their time watching it would go, "Gee, they are using blackpowder rounds, that's very authentic."

Brings a whole different meaning to Cast Bullet loads.

Attachment 88155

LOL

I heard on a legal podcast, he might be a producer of the movie. As an actor, might get off. As producer, lots of liability.

The Hillary angle is interesting for sure.

Good advice!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5645f183c9.jpg

Soo

The green haired girl says it was a set up. Someone slipped real bullets in with the blanks.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...ldwin-shooting

"We know a couple of facts. We know there was a live round in a box of dummy rounds that shouldn’t have been there. At least one round. We have people who walked off set because they were disgruntled. We have a timeline of approximately 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. that day in which the firearms at that time were unattended," Bowles said. "So there was opportunity to tamper with this scene and yes, we’re looking at that possibility."

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Originally Posted by eddiememphis

The green haired girl says it was a set up.

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Excuses nothing. Baldwin didn't check it, he's guilty of negligent homicide.

O2

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Originally Posted by eddiememphis

The green haired girl says it was a set up. Someone slipped real bullets in with the blanks.

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Somehow, I am not trusting the opinion of the 24 year old girl who carries all the liability for it to not say "yeah, it was me".

I am also 100% calling bullshit on it being a set up. They had a live fire accident(s) on the set in the week prior. Is that a set up to?

And if she is the armorer, is she not checking weapons before they are handed off to people in any circumstance? Some armorer.

Sounds like a cliche stoner/gamer chick whose DAD is a real industry expert, and her qualifications are simply that her dad screwed someone 24 years and 10 months ago.

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Originally Posted by hollohas

Good advice!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5645f183c9.jpg

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Nice!

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Originally Posted by FoxtArt

Somehow, I am not trusting the opinion of the 24 year old girl...

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Sexist.