I agree Pancho
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I agree Pancho
again, more basal points being neglected on this highly emotional issue: bankruptcy vs quality of life? who would NOT choose the relative luxury of writing off debts? How was bankruptcy so bad for the folks who had to show up in court as the defendant for GM, Lehman Bros, WashMutual, Mike Tyson, Willie Nelson, Gary Coleman....et al. Seems to be the recovery period was substantially less than 7yrs of bad credit? I am glad as a tax payer I get to help those unfortunate companies that didn't follow the rules.
Oh, and the MORE basic point, if health care WAS a FREE MARKET vs somewhat state controlled, the costs would not be anywhere near the same burden.
How much were Bluray players 2 yrs ago? how much are they now....that free market exercise goes from roughly $1000 to $40. Simple free market supply/demand.
How much do MRI scans cost today vs their early days in the late '70's? Why do certain cancer or similar disease drugs cost upwards of SIX figures? Oh wait, this is where Canada does have us beat, the government there will ignore a patent to ensure a reasonable retail cost schema- cancer treatments there can be logarithmically less than here...hmm, the wait times may be more, but I digress.
furthermore, this taken from the OECD summary:
"The U.S. spent 16 percent of its GDP on health care. This proportion was nearly double the OECD median (8.7%) and over 40 percent more than the country spending the second-largest share of GDP (France 11.2%)."
That should be telling in regards to the exact validity of the comparison- when in all of history, does the quantity of money spent by a government equal value returned? (reference QE1/QE2 etc. etc. ad nauseum)
Healthcare is different because of reasons. Trust them!
MRI scanners evolve so fast that it makes your point moot. I would never want to be scanned in an older CT or MRI. They are more likely to miss stuff and give you WAY more radiation (CT) than they would with a modern machine.
As for the patents, that system is so corrupt its not even funny. The drug industry is one of the most profitable industries in America. So I hardly worry about them losing out over saving peoples lives. booo hooo for them. Many of the reasons we spend so much is due to our corrupt patent renewal system.
The other figures about money spent in relation to GDP is spot on.
ROFLQuote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Somebody's sarcasm detector is broken.
nynco - you are continuing to just make stuff up.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
No its just over your head. Do you know what slices mean in CT. Do you know what a spin echo is in MRI? Or what the term "dose" even means?
I hear the oil industry is very profitable as well. We need more government regulation. I know what slices means when talking about pizza.
A modern 64 slice CT can catch things that would NEVER be seen with a single slice CT machine from the 1980s. That same modern machine can do 3d rendering. Which the older stuff can barely produce and image capable of seeing what is going on. At the time, those things were state of the art. But tech has moved on. Would you trust your life on the machine that could miss something?
The oil industry is profitable and massively corrupt. Its a shining example of how industry buys our gov and gets the regulations they want. Heck they own a whole party lock stock and barrel. They have those same corrupt leaders selling the gullible public that we need a pipeline to take Canadian oil through America so they can sell it to the world. When right now, we refine all that oil for ourselves. Talk about corrupt. Fuck the world keep that oil for the US.
So i was reading some blurps on this piece of shit, and found out that the ACA discriminates against special needs. MotherF***ers that's my brother. I'm really pissed now, and theres more to that POS that pisses me off everyday. I'll get pages and post to the thread when more time presents itself.
With out Ocare, my family is fine...With hit, all underlined provisions SCREW US!!!
I started to underline all the shit that is gonna screw me and my fam over, but i'm just to pissed off. The more I read, the more I would like to have the our elected officals follow by the same rules...which they so conveniently left themselves out of!
50 Threats from ObamaCare
1) Pg 22 mandates that the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure. So every employer in the United States will be subjected to a health insurance audit just as all taxpayers are subject to audit. Of course, we will have to pay for an entire new bureaucracy to do this–the Internal Health Revenue Service?
2) Pg 30, Sec 123 states that there will be a government committee that decides what treatments you are allowed and what your overall benefits are.
3) Pg 29, lines 4-16 basically mandates the rationing of health care as is being done in Canada.
4) Pg 42 recognizes the power of the Health Choices Commissioner to determine your health benefits. You will have no choice.
5) PG 50, section 152 states that free, taxpayer-paid health care will be given to the 30 million non-citizens in the USA, even illegal aliens.
6) Pg 58 states that government will have possession of all your health care records & history including finances and you will have to have a National ID Healthcard.
7) Pg 59, lines 21-24 gives direct access to your banks accounts to compel you to pay any out-of-pocket or premium costs electronically without your previous consent.
8) PG 65, sec 164 provides for a political payoff from the Democrats and Obama; a special subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions community groups like ACORN.
9) Pg 72, lines 8-14 creates a Health Care Exchange to bring private health insurance plans under government control. This part of the bill reveals Obama’s lies about being able to keep your plan if you like it. Any health insurance plan which does not completely rework itself to conform to these regulations will be dropped from the exchange and those insured will have to pick one of the plans in the exchange. This is why the Congressional Budget Office determined that over 20 million will lose the coverage they are now enjoying if Obamacare is implemented.
10) PG 85, line 7 provides specifics for benefit levels for all health plans, giving government the right to ration everyone’s healthcare.
11) PG 91, lines 4-7 mandates that doctor’s offices, clinics and hospitals provide language-appropriate services, basically ordering them to hire translators at the expense of the American taxpayer.
12) Pg 95, lines 8-18 allows the government to hire non-profit community groups like ACORN and Americorps to sign up people for the government health plan.
13) PG 85, line 7 provides for specifics on benefit levels for Medicare recipients, basically rationing the care of every senior citizen I the United States.
14) PG 102, lines 12-18 mandates that all Medicaid eligible will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid based upon income and insurance status. No choice.
15) Pg 124, lines 24-25 states that no private company or individual can have the right to sue the federal government for medical price fixing, basically eliminating your right to seek redress in the courts regarding your medical care.
16) Pg 127, lines 1-16 dictates doctors’ payment and therefore income which will reduce what doctors earn and lead to greater shortages of doctors and more rationing of care.
17) Pg 145, line 15-17 any employer not currently insuring their employees must enroll employees into public plan option, with no choice of private insurance allowed.
18) Pg 126, lines 22-25 mandates that employers must pay for health insurance even for part-time workers and their families, which will certainly lead to massive layoffs.
19) Pg 149, lines 16-24 all employers with an annual payroll bigger than $400k who does not pay to enroll employees in public insurance option will pay an 8% tax on all payroll.
20) Pg 150, lines 9-13 mandates that employers with an annual payroll between $251K & $400K who does not pay to enroll employees in public insurance option will pay a 2-6% tax on all payroll.
21) Pg 167, lines 18-23 any individual who is self-employed and does not have health insurance will be taxed 2.5% of income and forced to accept public health insurance. So paying for health care out of pocket will be banned from the face of the earth.
22) Pg 170, lines 1-3 exempts non-resident aliens from the individual health care taxes, so Americans citizens will pay for these aliens, legal and illegal alike.
23) Pg 195 officers & employees of the new Health Care Administration will have access to all Americans personal financial records and accounts.
24) PG 203, line 14-15 actually says that “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it says that.
25) Pg 239, line 14-24 mandates that available physician services will be reduced for Medicaid recipients. Many poor people including many seniors will be affected.
26) Pg 241, line 6-8 mandates that all doctors receive the same pay, regardless of specialty. This will vastly reduce the number of specialists available in the United States, a common problem where medicine is socialized like Canada.
27) PG 253, line 10-18 allows the federal government to set the value of doctor’s time, professional judgment.
28) PG 265, Sec 1131 mandates and controls the productivity of all health care providers including surgeons!
29) PG 268, Sec 1141 regulates the rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
30) PG 272, Sec. 1145 regulates the operation of certain types of cancer hospitals, again rationing the care of cancer patients.
31) Page 280, Sec 1151 allows the government to penalize hospitals for what is deemed to be preventable readmissions. So instead of being sued for malpractice, the government will be the punitive body when mistakes are made.
32) Pg 298, lines 9-11 mandates that if a doctor treats a patient during initial admission and that result in a re-admission, the doctor will be subject to federal penalties. Gee do you think that’s going to drive up the cost of malpractice?
33) Pg 317, lines 13-20 will create prohibitions on ownership and investment in the health service industry for doctors.
34) Pg 317-318, lines 21-25, and 1-3 will prohibit the expansion of all hospitals.
35) pg 321, lines 2-13 allows hospitals apply for an exception to the expansion rule but they must seek community input first!
36) Pg335, lines 16-25, Pg 336-339 mandates the establishment of outcome based health care and insidious idea that actually limits the treatment choices made by patients with their doctors, based upon the patient’s health and condition. This will result in the oldest, weakest and sickest patients being denied treatments simply because the statistics for success in their demographic category are poor! This is a form of health care rationing that will save money at the expense of seniors to help buy insurance for the uninsured, most of whom are young and healthy!
37) Pg 341, lines 3-9 allows the government to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans and HMO forcing people into the government run public plan.
38) Pg 354, Sec 1177 will arbitrarily restrict the enrollment of special needs children and adults.
39) Pg 379, Sec 1191 mandates the creation of even more bureaucracy in the Telehealth Advisory Committee.
40) PG 425, lines 4-12 mandates “Advance Care Planning Consultation,” another insidious vehicle to save money by encouraging seniors who are in poor health to be more accepting of death rather than fighting to stay alive and healthy and with their loved ones.
41) Pg 425, lines 17-19 mandates that all senior patients will be consulted regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney.
42) PG 425, lines 22-25, 426 lines 1-3 provides an approved list of end of life resources, to help guide seniors about the process of dying!
43) PG 427, lines 15 mandates program for orders on the end of life, actually giving the government a say in how your life ends!
44) Pg 429, lines 1-9 dictates the frequency with which an Advance Care Planning Consultant will have to meet with patients as their health deteriorates.
45) PG 429, lines 10-12 give an Advance Care Planning Consultant the power to order end of life plans for a patient.
46) Pg 429, lines 13-25 will only allow certain doctors, not necessarily your own physician, to write an end of life order.
47) PG 430, lines 11-15 allows the government to decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.
48) Pg 469 mandates “Community Based Home Medical Services” through non profits like ACORN. Happy yet that we elected a community organizer to the White House?
49) PG 489, Sec 1308 force taxpayers to pay for Marriage & Family therapy under the public insurance plan.
50) Pg 494-498 allows government to define mental illnesses and what services will be allowed to treat, again rationing this care.
Down loadable breakdown by category:
- For those concerned with the damage this plan will do to business:
Pg 22 mandates that the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure. So every employer in the United States will be subjected to a health insurance audit just as all taxpayers are subject to audit. Of course, we will have to pay for an entire new bureaucracy to do this–the Internal Health Revenue Service?
Pg 42 recognizes the power of the Health Choices Commissioner to determine your health benefits. You will have no choice.
PG 50, section 152 states that free, taxpayer-paid health care will be given to the 30 million non-citizens in the USA, even illegal aliens.
Pg 30, Sec 123 states that there will be a government committee that decides what treatments you are allowed and what your overall benefits are.
Pg 29, lines 4-16 basically mandates the rationing of health care as is being done in Canada.
Pg 42 recognizes the power of the Health Choices Commissioner to determine your health benefits. You will have no choice.
Pg 58 states that government will have possession of all your health care records & history including finances and you will have to have a National ID Healthcard.
Pg 59, lines 21-24 gives direct access to your banks accounts to compel you to pay any out-of-pocket or premium costs electronically without your previous consent.
Pg 72, lines 8-14 creates a Health Care Exchange to bring private health insurance plans under government control. This part of the bill reveals Obama’s lies about being able to keep your plan if you like it. Any health insurance plan which does not completely rework itself to conform to these regulations will be dropped from the exchange and those insured will have to pick one of the plans in the exchange. This is why the Congressional Budget Office determined that over 20 million will lose the coverage they are now enjoying if Obamacare is implemented.
Pg 145, line 15-17 any employer not currently insuring their employees must enroll employees into public plan option, with no choice of private insurance allowed.
Pg 126, lines 22-25 mandates that employers must pay for health insurance even for part-time workers and their families, which will certainly lead to massive layoffs.
Pg 149, lines 16-24 all employers with an annual payroll bigger than $400k who does not pay to enroll employees in public insurance option will pay an 8% tax on all payroll.
Pg 167, lines 18-23 any individual who is self-employed and does not have health insurance will be taxed 2.5% of income and forced to accept public health insurance. So paying for health care out of pocket will be banned from the face of the earth.
For those concerned with the inherent unfairness in this plan.
PG 65, sec 164 provides for a political payoff from the Democrats and Obama; a special subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions community groups like ACORN.
PG 102, lines 12-18 mandates that all Medicaid eligible will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid based upon income and insurance status. No choice.
Pg 124, lines 24-25 states that no private company or individual can have the right to sue the federal government for medical price fixing, basically eliminating your right to seek redress in the courts regarding your medical care.
Pg 469 mandates “Community Based Home Medical Services” through non profits like ACORN. Happy yet that we elected a community organizer to the White House?
- For those afraid of healthcare rationing:
PG 85, line 7 provides specifics for benefit levels for all health plans, giving government the right to ration everyone’s healthcare.
Pg 239, line 14-24 mandates that available physician services will be reduced for Medicaid recipients. Many poor people including many seniors will be affected.
PG 272, Sec. 1145 regulates the operation of certain types of cancer hospitals, again rationing the care of cancer patients.
- For those concerned with the costs of this plan:
PG 91, lines 4-7 mandates that doctor’s offices, clinics and hospitals provide language-appropriate services, basically ordering them to hire translators at the expense of the American taxpayer.
Pg 95, lines 8-18 allows the government to hire non-profit community groups like ACORN and Americorps to sign up people for the government health plan.
Pg 170, lines 1-3 exempts non-resident aliens from the individual health care taxes, so Americans citizens will pay for these aliens, legal and illegal alike.
PG 489, Sec 1308 force taxpayers to pay for Marriage & Family therapy under the public insurance plan.
- For those concerned with the damage this plan will do to the medical profession:
Pg 127, lines 1-16 dictates doctors’ payment and therefore income which will reduce what doctors earn and lead to greater shortages of doctors and more rationing of care.
Pg 150, lines 9-13 mandates that employers with an annual payroll between $251K & $400K who does not pay to enroll employees in public insurance option will pay a 2-6% tax on all payroll.
Pg 241, line 6-8 mandates that all doctors receive the same pay, regardless of specialty. This will vastly reduce the number of specialists available in the United States, a common problem where medicine is socialized like Canada.
PG 253, line 10-18 allows the federal government to set the value of doctor’s time, professional judgment.
PG 265, Sec 1131 mandates and controls the productivity of all health care providers including surgeons!
Page 280, Sec 1151 allows the government to penalize hospitals for what is deemed to be preventable readmissions. So instead of being sued for malpractice, the government will be the punitive body when mistakes are made.
Pg 298, lines 9-11 mandates that if a doctor treats a patient during initial admission and that result in a re-admission, the doctor will be subject to federal penalties. Gee do you think that’s going to drive up the cost of malpractice?
Pg 317, lines 13-20 will create prohibitions on ownership and investment in the health service industry for doctors.
Pg 317-318, lines 21-25, and 1-3 will prohibit the expansion of all hospitals.
pg 321, lines 2-13 allows hospitals apply for an exception to the expansion rule but they must seek community input first!
Pg335, lines 16-25, Pg 336-339 mandates the establishment of outcome based health care and insidious idea that actually limits the treatment choices made by patients with their doctors, based upon the patient’s health and condition. This will result in the oldest, weakest and sickest patients being denied treatments simply because the statistics for success in their demographic category are poor! This is a form of health care rationing that will save money at the expense of seniors to help buy insurance for the uninsured, most of whom are young and healthy!
Pg 341, lines 3-9 allows the government to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans and HMO forcing people into the government run public plan.
- For those concerned with violations of individual rights violations in this plan:
Pg 195 officers & employees of the new Health Care Administration will have access to all Americans personal financial records and accounts.
PG 203, line 14-15 actually says that “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it says that.
PG 268, Sec 1141 regulates the rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
Pg 379, Sec 1191 mandates the creation of even more bureaucracy in the Telehealth Advisory Committee.
PG 425, lines 4-12 mandates “Advance Care Planning Consultation,” another insidious vehicle to save money by encouraging seniors who are in poor health to be more accepting of death rather than fighting to stay alive and healthy and with their loved ones.
Pg 425, lines 17-19 mandates that all senior patients will be consulted regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney.
PG 425, lines 22-25, 426 lines 1-3 provides an approved list of end of life resources, to help guide seniors about the process of dying!
PG 427, lines 15 mandates program for orders on the end of life, actually giving the government a say in how your life ends!
Pg 429, lines 1-9 dictates the frequency with which an Advance Care Planning Consultant will have to meet with patients as their health deteriorates.
PG 429, lines 10-12 give an Advance Care Planning Consultant the power to order end of life plans for a patient.
Pg 354, Sec 1177 will arbitrarily restrict the enrollment of special needs children and adults.
Pg 429, lines 13-25 will only allow certain doctors, not necessarily your own physician, to write an end of life order.
PG 430, lines 11-15 allows the government to decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.
Pg 494-498 allows government to define mental illnesses and what services will be allowed to treat, again rationing this care.
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Where did you get this from?
http://www.coachisright.com/special-...rom-obamacare/Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpienads
Most of my looking into this garbage started at church....someone there put together one hell of a board. I'll post a pic next Sunday.
seems it's coming to light more and more every day that Ocare is gonna screw the pooch.........found this story today.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/wi...rance-premiums
OH MY GOD! Nynco is back!? Rucker, step away from the Guillotine, you've gotten a reprieve! Holy crap- nynco hasn't been on since before the great crash... And here we thought we ran him (her?) off for good... [ROFL1]
TRnCO- There are about 6,000 stories just like that, so much it's scary. Look at your own insurance premiums on renewal, I'll bet they go way up... Also, not being reported on as much, companies that are cutting back either by layoffs or downgrading their F/T to P/T. Buckle up kids, this is gonna be a bumpy ride! [Mad]
Already participated in a locked thread. Seems he ruffled a few feathers. :D https://www.ar-15.co/threads/71089-B...ing-going-goneQuote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
Hey its not my fault that some people can't handle another point of view.
What is your fault is that you don't understand any one else's point of view, your understandings of the counterarguments are cartoonish. And you really are not at all informed on the topics you so boldly dump your opinions on. You stopped reading at the end of the bumper.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Thats your opinion spqrzilla. Notice how I don't treat you the same way you treat me. I know most of you will not agree with me. But I don't go around bullying you guys like you do to me. So if anyone is cartoonist about shit, it is you guys to me. Sadly knee jerk predictable...
Aahhhh Liberalism.. Making life so much better every single day. Just not for you.
Praise Dear Leader!
Dear leader?... who Bush? He's gone, why do you keep on bringing him up. I mean the guy was an embarrassment and still is.
Dude!!?? Give it a rest already. You screwed the pooch for voting for the O-Bamanation. O great he won. We want him out period. Go to sleep, you retards won for now. F-Off. And dream of all the money and free health care and food stamps you will be living on for the next 4 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
And we will take care of all of you with our tax money. You LAZY Libtard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the irony of your statement. All the worst welfare states in the union are red states. The old tired line you guys run is passed. That is not who we are, it is who you have become.
I was being perfectly nice when I came back. But then on Veterans day I had one of you psychos call me a traitor.... for what... not voting for who you all wanted. So, yeah sorry for hurting YOUR feelings. You want to know why you lost. Look in the mirror. I would have gladly voted for Ron Paul or Huntsman. But NOOOOO the modern GOP is not the party of Eisenhower, it is the party lost in loony world. I am not an Obama supporter. I voted for him because he was better than the giant douche on the other side. Its a screwed up country where we are told we are free but forced to vote for the two party dictatorshit. I would hope that you all would figure that out after having to support Romney.
I also have a custom built AR. I built it from parts. Each item how I want and ever changing. Building a new Mega Arms lower right now.
http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/comme...oochers-the-47
"The Tax Foundation unequivocally states, "Nine of the ten states with the largest percentage of nonpayers are in the South and Southwest. In Mississippi, 45 percent of federal tax returns remit nothing or receive money with their federal tax returns; that is the highest percentage nationally. Georgia is next at 41 percent, followed by Arkansas at 41 percent, and Alabama, South Carolina,"
nynco, your arguments have no basis in reality because your basic premise is flawed. Anyone who supports Obamacare in its current form does not understand or advocate the concept of liberty. No one has a fundamental Right to healthcare. Wait. . . let's back up and take the specifics out of it: No one has a Right to receive anything from anyone. To mandate otherwise is tyranny in its rawest form.
If you think socialized medicine is a good idea, you need to go spend some time in a country where it has been in place for a while and actually talk to some of the folks who live there. I'll give you a little anecdote in the meantime. My wife and I recently spent a couple weeks with her grandmother, who lives in Vienna. One morning over breakfast, she and I had a lively political discussion where Grossmutti espoused over and over the wonderful merits of socialized medicine. During our taxi ride home from the opera the following evening, she pointed out a large building to one side and said, "This is a very nice hospital, but it is only for those who pay. If I get sick, I must go across town to the other hospital, which is not quite so good." I was too dumbfounded to argue, and filled with pity for a 98-year-old woman so fully indoctrinated in a failed policy she did not even realize what she was saying. Meanwhile, citizens of Austria who make less than most of us here pay as much as 50% of their income to fund social programs such as the privilege of substandard healthcare.
Sorry don't agree with your premise at all. I believe in civilization. The way of thinking "No one has a Right to receive anything from anyone." thankfully went out with the dark ages. Honestly, if you extremists which you are an extremist if you believe that the gov should do nothing but military, want to secede, I am all for it. I am sick of fighting these never ending battles where we keep on repeating the mistakes of the past. 2 republican great depressions each preceded by deregulation and massive tax cuts for the wealthy. But nooo its all because of the welfare poor. We have over 100 years of data of what works and what does not. There is no debate, the right wing model for economics has failed and you guys still cling to it.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhart...vote-democrat/
- Personal disposable income has grown nearly 6 times more under Democratic presidents
- Gross Domestic Product (GDP) has grown 7 times more under Democratic presidents
- Corporate profits have grown over 16% more per year under Democratic presidents (they actually declined under Republicans by an average of 4.53%/year)
- Average annual compound return on the stock market has been 18 times greater under Democratic presidents (If you invested $100k for 40 years of Republican administrations you had $126k at the end, if you invested $100k for 40 years of Democrat administrations you had $3.9M at the end)
- Republican presidents added 2.5 times more to the national debt than Democratic presidents
- The two times the economy steered into the ditch (Great Depression and Great Recession) were during Republican, laissez faire administrations
You are so full of shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
The tax base is in the high rent districts. Of course the financial centers take in more taxes than the deep south. Of course the poverty level there is lower and folks tend to be non-filers or get refunds. [Bang]
Libs like to manufacture the numbers to work in their favor by touting Fed outlays compared to state input. That includes all programs - roads, bridges, military bases, etc. and overlooks the fact that many deep south "red" states have less educated populations making less money, thereby paying less into the system. The data is oft repeated on many, many Lib sites.
How about we talk about the takers, the moochers, the leeches of our hard earned tax dollars? 4.5M on welfare.
This shows a representative mix but the data is old. http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco...tal-recipients
This is more current data. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/...11-07-tanssp-0
Caseload data top takers:
#1 California
#2 New York
#3 Ohio
#4 Michigan
#5 Tennessee
#6 Pennsylvania
#7 Washington
#8 Texas
#9 Massachusetts
#10 Florida
This one includes food stamp recipients. Barring Texas, which has very low welfare takers, The big moochers are Blue states. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...are-table.html
Where's the largest population of assistance recipients?
#1 California
#2 New York
#3 Pennsylvania
#4 Michigan
#5 Ohio
How about Food stamps?
#1 Texas*
#2 California
#3 New York
#4 Florida
#5 Illinois
#6 Michigan
#7 Pennsylvania
#8 Ohio
* Texas has a low welfare handout. That tells me there are hard working people barely scraping by but needing assistance, but at least they are working and not sitting on their ass eating bon bons.
As a fair comparison, the top 10 states by income to the Fed:
1 California
2 New York
3 Texas
4 Florida
5 Illinois
6 New Jersey
7 Pennsylvania
8 Ohio
9 Minnesota
10 North Carolina
Just the facts man, just the facts. I get mine from published government or non-biased media reports.
So when the Dems inherit shit from their predecessor, it's Bush's fault, but when they inherit prosperity, they did it all on their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Brilliant.
[QUOTE=nynco;731659]Sorry don't agree with your premise at all. I believe in civilization. The way of thinking "No one has a Right to receive anything from anyone." thankfully went out with the dark ages. Honestly, if you extremists which you are an extremist if you believe that the gov should do nothing but military, want to secede, I am all for it. I am sick of fighting these never ending battles where we keep on repeating the mistakes of the past. 2 republican great depressions each preceded by deregulation and massive tax cuts for the wealthy. But nooo its all because of the welfare poor. We have over 100 years of data of what works and what does not. There is no debate, the right wing model for economics has failed and you guys still cling to it.
Well, from my observations of the last 4 years, your left wing model for economics isn't working so hot either. So....
If you voted for Obama, you're my enemy.
This, and an enemy to the United States.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
More of your brazen lies, nynco. Or ignorance, its hard to tell which because of your incompetence. There was no "massive" tax cut for the wealthy in either case. The Bush era tax rates reduced taxation for all taxpayers. If that wasn't so, why is it that the Democrats don't want to just see it entirely expire at the end of the year?Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
And there was no deregulation by the G.W. Bush administration. The idea that G.W. Bush was laissez faire is outright ridiculous. For your information, the Federal Register didn't cease publication from 2001 to 2009. Democrats often falsely blame the repeal of Glass-Steagal for the financial crisis, but that was pushed by the Clinton administration.
You just keep making stuff up. Dishonest or utterly uninformed, its become a bore to try to figure out.
1. If you believe so much in socialized government-provided medicine, serve a few tours in the military. It took me three years and four orthopedic surgeons to get my torn rotator cuff repaired. My "sprained" ankle from 20+ years never was fully healed.
2. There was only one Great Depression despite what the left-wing propaganda spews. The Great Recession of 2008 was created by government intrusion in the marketplace, specifically the Community Reinvestment Act and aggressive enforcement of it under the Clinton administration spurred by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. This recession was NOT the worst since the Great Depression in 2008 as it was then exceeded by the Carter Recession of 1979-1982 (unemployment + interest rates) until this recession was exacerbated and prolonged by Obama's policies. It doesn't much matter whether we are in a double-dip or triple-dip recession (if you believe economists claiming an imperceptible recovery in 2010) or still in one long one.
Please cite where non-emergency federal expenditures on healthcare, education, housing, etc. are authorized under the Constitution (and don't give me any weak sauce about the "general welfare" clause either as "promote the general welfare" is in the preamble, not in any article of authorization or amendment).
History has shown repeatedly that these Stalinist-Maoist government-centric systems never work out economically in the long run. The British NHS was virtually bankrupt and pushing British doctors to come to America before free market reforms were put in place. European governments are still trying to figure out how to have their cake and eat it too. Oil in the North Sea is the one main reason Norway has been able to maintain its current socialized healthcare system. Try it without the deus ex machina of a huge natural resource influx or sudden industry boom like the Internet in the early/mid-1990s.
The uneducated were scammed by Obama's "free stuff" promises, the unapologetic liberals didn't care about the truth or economic realities ... and of course there're people in both categories like at least one troll in this forum. I said before the election that there were three reasons for voting for Obama in 2012: 1) you were asleep for the last 3.5 years, 2) you're an unapologetic die-hard Marxist or 3) you're dumber than a box of Rice Krispies (well, I said something more politically incorrect and offensive than this but with the same intent). I stand by that statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynco
Ahhh yeah, those states are RED and made up of people who believe in paying their share and not a penny more. As a Tennessee hilljack, let me tell you that we paid our taxes, but you bet your ass we wanted the money we did not owe the government back. If I had my way we would not have our taxes pulled out of our paycheck, just pay them quarterly or annually.
Even when the Dems inherent the pile of crap the conservatives leave, they still do better. Just goes to show you. You hand the conservatives a working economy and in no time they tank it. Hand the "liberals" (really moderate conservatives in the Democrap party) the pile of crap and they fix it.
Yeah those red states talk a good game and then suck on the gov tit more than anyone else. Then to top it all off they support politicians that hate gov and vow to destroy it. Talk about biting the hand that feeds. If we went back to the wet dream that you guys envision that is nothing more than The Articles of Confederation all over (which failed) the red states would look like Somalia. Which some of them are not far off once you get into the back woods.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalker460
Umm The republic of Texas has a stronger economy on its own than 95% of the world... its ranked 14th in the WORLD.
Next time you are drooling over rifles and handguns, I suggest you look into where they are made.
we make F22s and Glocks within 4 miles of my residence in Smyrna GA.
This is not the south of the past