Oversight board faults LAPD's Dorner deployment

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

^^Wow! 25 posts until your fucking anti-cop sarcasm shows up. Pretty amazing.

I'm not defending this goat fuck of a shooting at all. But your incessant, sarcastic bitching and whining is really irritating.

Maybe, at some point, you or someone you care about will really need police help and they won't show up. Would that make you happy?

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So these guys light up a truck that isnt even close to the one that donner was in . The sound of a newspaper hitting the ground caused one bloke to get scared so they lit up 2 Asian ladies.

and im anti cop - sure. That's the standard line of people who think there is always an excuse for xyz. Sure. uh-huh

You know whats irritating to me?

Unaccountable d-bags who think they can shoot first kill maim ruin peoples lives over incompetence - then they get some extra unplanned paid vaca. There is a difference.

A big one.

I guess you can't see the difference. I'd say that's irritating, but its more pathetic.

*shrug*

ETA: I only pray that this little hiccup in their career wont make them hesitate the next time people that look nothing like the suspect need to be shot up. That would be a terrible consequence. Just think about if the next 2 Asian ladies got inside his OODA loop and actually delivered the next newspaper.

Holy Shit!

What's pathetic is some peckerwood who tries to convince me he's not anti-cop when everything he posts regarding the police is a bunch of sarcastic bullshit because, on occasion, a cop screws the pooch. Cry me a fuckin' river. Well guess what, genius? Every day 800,000 state and local cops don't fuck up. So why is it I never hear a fuckin' word about that from you, Mr I'm Not Anti-Cop?

Oh...I know why. Because you have to generalize all cops based on the actions of a fraction of the total and lump the good with the bad. Yeah...there is a difference.

Whatever you do for a living, or however you live your life, I suppose you do it fuckin' perfectly every day without making a mistake.

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Originally Posted by lowbeyond

Unaccountable d-bags who think they can shoot first kill maim ruin peoples lives over incompetence - then they get some extra unplanned paid vaca. There is a difference.

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Oh, yeah. They were probably discussing how they were gonna go shoot up a couple of old ladies during roll call that day just to get some time off. You're an idiot.

Both of you gentlemen need to have a drink and relax...

This was a bad shoot: yes.

Bad decisions: yes.

Is it prone to happen in big jurisdictions: yes. (insert reason why here)

Does that make all of our LE's bad guys: no.

At the end of the AAR; what is the end question...

How does the LE community stop this from happening again?

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Originally Posted by <MADDOG>

At the end of the AAR; what is the end question...

How does the LE community stop this from happening again?

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I'm not sure... "scenario fulfillment" is a hard one to combat .. esp when people are in an non supervised roll. ( what I mean is that the officers have the ROE to engage without asking someone else first. not that there are no police supervisors.. nor am I suggesting it should be any other way) Those guys saw that truck as Dorners and there was no changing that. and once the first guy shot.. everyone else kinda joined in and they all fed each other. ( reading the report I.. other then the first shot... think all the shots the others guys heard were other cops shooting. )

Didn't help they were scared ( rightfully so .. a former cop is out hunting cops .. I'd have been on edge too )

The sad part is I see all this .. and I get what happened.. I even see why it happened... still pisses me the fuck off that 7-8 cops could not stop to think long enough that the truck was not even the right color.

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Originally Posted by <MADDOG>

Both of you gentlemen need to have a drink and relax...

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Well sometimes there just isn't enough booze to make it possible to deal with some people. So that isn't the answer.

Yes...they screwed up. All the way around. No question about it. But it isn't as simple as the truck was the wrong color or how they mistook the sound of a newspaper hitting the concrete as a gunshot. To say they are unaccountable for doing something like that goes beyond ignorance and to imply it was intentional, or that they're just itching to do it again, is just stupid. And it sure as hell doesn't disguise the agenda of the individual making the statements.

Few people go through the initial training, not to mention the ongoing training regimens, as professional pilots. But sometimes they make mistakes and people get hurt or killed. People who install furnaces make mistakes on occasion and get people hurt or killed. Truck drivers, doctors...you name it...make mistakes and people get hurt or killed. But for some reason, when a cop...a person who is intentionally placed into very dangerous situations where life and death decisions must be made instantaneously and not always under the best of environmental conditions, makes a mistake and hurts or kills someone, some people just can't understand why that's possible. At every opportunity it becomes a chance for them to disparage everyone who wears the badge.

Bailey, the whole problem here is trust. A LEO can literally get away with murder in this country with out a jury by piers and in the end gets a paid vaca and training out of it. If a civilian did the same thing that we hear about in these LEO screw up's they would go to jail. The problem is LEO's are civilians, civilians can perform the same actions as a LEO yet it is frowned at. If we civilians screw up there is no vaca, no pay and there is a criminal suit. There is no doubt LEO's are above the law in our minds because of this, and in the end we loose trust in the system. By no means are any and all LEO's bad seed's, the problem is that bad seeds get away with it all too often. If some one tried/did murder me i want them in jail LEO or not. Yet many of us all expect these LEO's are going to be back on the streets in no time. LEO's are paid to pay more attention then the rest of us because that is their job, the added risk means nothing to me because it is a side effect of the job. Many jobs are more risky then being an LEO but they do not get special privileges. Should LEO's get paided more then they do? YES, but they should be treated no different then the rest of us when something happens because they are us. The problem is we know LEO's are above the law and in a different class because the same rules do not always apply yet we are both civilians that should be held to the same standards. I am friends with Many LEO's and because of them know quite a few more. I do not hate any of them but if any of them got this super duper special treatment i would not be happy.

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Originally Posted by Rabid

Many jobs are more risky then being an LEO but they do not get special privileges.

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In the example given of airline pilots, they have skin in the game. Sitting in the nose of the guided missile, if they crash the plane, they likely don't go home at the end of the day.

With a 100 rounds fired at 2 unarmed women, the only thing likely to prevent the officers going home at the end of the day is if they shot each other. If there was more accountability, this might be less likely to happen. Without the accountability, this will happen again.

Well the same thing can be said about Joe Citizen...especially in this day and age. I really don't trust the average person to do the right thing, either. Have you ever been sued for $16M for something you didn't do? I have. Yeah...little Joe Citizen decided he didn't wanna go to jail for DUI. So he hits his head against the cage in my car, puts a small cut in his forehead, and makes up a story (actually it was 4 stories) about what happened.

It was total bullshit and everyone knew it was total bullshit. But I still had to endure an IA investigation, a civil rights investigation by the FBI and a 7 day trial in Federal District Court. Nothing I could do about it except listen to what a "bad cop" I was for 3 1/2 years. Fortunately, the jury saw right through the bullshit and I was found not liable. The piece of shit Joe Citizen that sued me? A 19 year old who'd never worked, probably never would work, mom and dad were both convicted felons so they didn't have anything and never would. Tell me about accountability. They laughed the whole thing off including the $480,000 judgment against them for my costs and atty's fees because they knew it meant dick.

That same shit happens day in and day out...far more often than cops doing stupid shit and completely getting away with it. You guys make it sound like cops can go out on the street and do what the fuck ever they want without any consequences. Well it happens on occasion, but far more often there are consequences...serious consequences. I basically lost 3 1/2 years of my life to that little asshole and he sure as hell didn't have any accountability or suffer any consequences.

So spare me the sob stories about poor little innocent Joe Citizen. I've already conceded this incident was a total cluster all the way around and it was wrong. But it's the exception rather than the rule. If some people have a hardon for cops and can't see that I don't have a problem pointing it out.

I just think they should be held to the same standards as civilians

Guy I work withs daughter was at the bar with her boyfriend in pueblo they were outside smoking a cigarette when three guys in a truck slowly drive by while shooting at them(with actual lead bullets and not newspaper ones)

The boyfriend returns fire killing one he is currently awaiting trial for murder because he used "too many bullets" while shooting back

And there are plenty of instances where civilians accidentally shoot and kill/injure innocent persons and are never charged.

It's never as simple as "too many bullets".