Fake Combat Application Tourniquets (CAT's)

Maybe TCCC could do a fake CAT buy back; turn in fake CAT they can use to demonstrate fake CAT and receive real at cost of fake.

If you're broke turning a bicycle inner tube into a swat-t is cheaper and more effective than the fake cats

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Originally Posted by clodhopper

Get over yourself. Sorry we are taxing your sensibilities. Sure, we are talking only 15 effin dollars, until you look beyond your own self and think that other people may be buying for more than just themselves. Personally, I am looking at buying 8 or so. Your piddly little $15 difference just became significant dollars for me. See why I am trying to get a better understanding on the whole situation? So far I have only heard that the lower dollar ones sometime break, but that could be ruled out by testing it, and since it isn't a sterile or one-shot item, certainly test it. Probably a good thing for training if not just to verify the product. Oh, and the other reason not to buy a knock off... "Ya effin tightwad, its only 15 bones ya f*cktard!" yeah, that is a good reason all by itself.

Sheesh.

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Exactly, I'm looking at buying more than one. Each car and a IFAK or two... adds up when you compile all the additional items that should be in there. I put one together from items on amazon, and it was $220 for one kit. (included a REAL CAT).

Some of those items on the amazon list were bulk items and contained more than one, like band-aids and gauze. Dispense those into the multiple kits/cars/whatever.

I think that the market price of tourniquits is stable enough that you don't have to worry about buying them all at the same time to avoid higher prices in the future. At least there is that.

Thanks for the info. I will be getting a good one from the resources provided!

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Originally Posted by clodhopper

Alrighty. Somebody needs to help eshplain it to me.

I get it that the supposed "fake" isn't the real deal, but it was less cost and appears to me to still be just as functional, minus the narrow windlass issue. All the minor differences touted as identifying the fake don't appear to affect function. What is the big deal here? If you were paying full price and getting a knockoff, I could understand that. The amazon one is about half the cost, which means I can have two for the same price, more likely to have one handy. Don't bother tossing in here the "what is your life worth" argument, we all make value judgements on everything in life.

How is the "fake" going to be less than serviceable?

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I get it. I'm not one to spend money needlessly, and if I can save the money, I will. I have trained a good amount with the real CAT tourniquets. I trust them, and to me, the extra $15.00 apiece is worth it to me. I'm not saying the fake one CAN'T save your life, in the highly unlikely event you'll need it, the fake one might work. I'll pose you with three different scenarios:

1. You buy 2 fake CAT tourniquets and they both work well. Congratulations, you spent half as much and have two pieces of life saving equipment.
2. You buy 2 fake CAT tourniquets and only one works well. Well, you spent the same amount you would have for the real deal and have a knock-off that should probably do the job (I'm assuming if their QC isn't great, their CS probably isn't either and replacing the bad one won't be easy or possible) **If by some miracle, their CS is good, you can send the faulty one(s) back and you are back in scenario #1**
3. You buy 2 fake CAT tourniquets and neither work well. Now you spent $30 and have nothing to show for it. *If by some miracle, their CS is good, you can send the faulty one(s) back and you are back in scenario #1**

If given the above three scenarios, you choose to go with the knock-offs, my only suggestion would be this: If QC is an issue with the brand you buy, ensure that EVERY one works. It would be shitty to find out that the one you trained with was the only one that worked out of the bunch of 8 you bought. The time to know whether they work or not is not when blood is spurting out of your leg.

In the other thread about these tourniquets, I mentioned a guy I work with who was shot through the thigh with a .300 WM and the tourniquet saved his life. I want to have THAT kind of confidence in the kit I'm using. Sure, the chance that you'll have to use one is probably less than the odds that you'll win the lottery in your lifetime, just like the odds that you'll ever have to pull your gun in a defensive scenario is relatively low. I don't carry a knock off CAT-T for the same reason I don't carry a Hi-Point for my ccw. Will a Hi-Point PROBABLY do the job you need it to if you have to pull your gun out? Probably, especially since the mere fact that you're armed may be enough to get rid of your threat. But in the off chance I actually have to fire my weapon in defense of myself or another, I carry the Glock that I have trained extensively with and have confidence in. If you chose to carry a Glock (or similar priced gun) over a Hi-Point, the difference of price is much more than the amount you would save by buying knock-offs (even if you bought 8, your savings would be a whopping $120, but maybe that savings is worth it to you).

There are some things I'd rather put extra money into and make sure I'm getting quality. I've learned that Murphy's law applies doubly to me. I've bought cheaper tools before and had it bite me in the ass. Like the time I was working on my car, the wrench I used sheared and I ended up punching the engine with my fist... now I buy higher quality wrenches, but I digress.

If the savings is worth it to you, go for it. I don't trust the knock-offs, but I'm not so elitist to say they CAN'T work. If the EMTs, LE, Mil, etc. are saying they don't trust knock-offs, I might trust their opinions. If you're buying 8, you'll probably get some that work and some that don't. Just make sure you inspect them before trusting in them. I only have two tourniquets, and the higher price for higher quality seemed worth it to me.

First let me apologize, I'm passionate about this topic. The reason I became a TCCC and CPR instructor are the experiences I have had on the job, and I see the importance of medical preparedness. I'm not trying to blast anyone who's on a budget, or be a jerk and I see how my last post could be taken as such.

I have a hard time seeing an 80% failure rate as "some times" failing. That's my experience with the fakes, where 100% of the real ones have held up to multiple applications through dozens of classes of 50+ people. Even if I can test and show a few good ones in a batch, I personally have a hard time then trusting the remaining "good" ones.

I'd be worried if mine were fake, seeing as they were the ones issued to me.

HBAR. If exposed to UV light for long periods of time they may degraded. I just replaced all of my older CAT's with Gen7's. Some of my older ones I have used in classes for 8 years and never had one break. Best recommendation is to upgrade your front line ones as you can, but the older ones should continue to work. Hope that helps.

It came up in another forum about orders from LAPG. So far nothing to worry about. The only reason I say be cautious under $25 and down right never buy if under $20 is I happen to know what the dealer cost is on these. At $25 there is a very small profit margin. LAPG probably moves a lot of product and a $25 CAT is something that gets buyers in to buy more, it is by far one of the lowest prices I have seen. I am sure it is an authentic CAT.