Interesting Viewpoint on F&F

The Fortune/CNN piece is an extraordinary piece of propaganda hand fed to Fortune by the ATF. It ignores the connections that have been made between the White House staff (a NSC staffer who was sent to Iraq overnight to put him out of reach of Congressional subpoena) and the ATF supervisors of F&F. It intentionally ignores much of the email that has been disclosed that shows mid management attention to the operation, complaints of field agents being overridden and the celebration by mid level management when guns showed up in Mexican crime scenes.

Anyone who had not bothered to follow the news of this scandal for the many long months that Sipsy Street Irregulars, and War on Guns has been working on it might be fooled ... but only if they really wanted to be fooled by Obama administration propaganda.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

For f**ks sake... I just read the article linked in the OP.

It was so slanted I had to turn my monitor on it's side to read it.

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You actually made it all the way through?[Beer]

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Originally Posted by lpgasman

You actually made it all the way through?[Beer]

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Yeah, I know...

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Originally Posted by Rucker61

Did this same activity happen under the last administration? Is the issue that the ATF told the FFLs to sell the guns?



What was Holder's crime? I seem to remember that the last POTUS wouldn't even testify under oath, so executive privilege is a two edged sword.

I accept that it's a campaign issue, but everything is a campaign issue to all politicians of all ilks.

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That's the point, nobody knows for sure just how deep the rabbit hole goes, that's the whole point of the investigation. Hell for all I know he could be tied in with the cartel and providing them weaponry directly by doing it. I doubt it but guess what, we can't find out because Obama has used executive privilege for something that it can't really apply to unless he directly authorized the whole thing. In which case Holder has purgered himself to congress which IS a crime. So pick your poison.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

It's funny...the rest of us didn't have any trouble finding the answers and the truth. Why can't you? I suspect it's because it doesn't fit with your liberal agenda.

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That liberal agenda that includes gun ownership and rights, military service, hunting and supporting the Constitution? That one? Both sides propagate propaganda, and I don't fall for any of it. That's why I'm asking questions. See, just by posting a link to a news article (that I call "interesting" and not "the gospel truth", you'll note) I've had a lot more evidence and beliefs brought to light.

With regards to truth, I was trained as a mathematician. I think my requirements for proof may be a bit higher than most peoples'.

this is nothing more than political damage control

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Customers can legally buy as many weapons as they want in Arizona as long as they're 18 or older and pass a criminal background check. There are no waiting periods and no need for permits, and buyers are allowed to resell the guns. "In Arizona," says Voth, "someone buying three guns is like someone buying a sandwich."

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maybe because both acts are equally LEGAL you fear mongering libtards....

Someone whose interests include gun rights ought to be outraged at the fact that the ATF tried to use guns that they had compelled gun stores to sell to justify new gun control regulations to "stop" such straw buying.

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Originally Posted by Rucker61

That liberal agenda that includes gun ownership and rights, military service, hunting and supporting the Constitution? That one? Both sides propagate propaganda, and I don't fall for any of it. That's why I'm asking questions. See, just by posting a link to a news article (that I call "interesting" and not "the gospel truth", you'll note) I've had a lot more evidence and beliefs brought to light.

With regards to truth, I was trained as a mathematician. I think my requirements for proof may be a bit higher than most peoples'.

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BS. John Kerry is a military veteran and likes to parade around with a shotgun to show his "real" support of the 2nd Amendment and the Constitution. So I'm not really impressed with your little list.

If you were so concerned with the Constitution and supporting gun rights, not to mention having such high standards for discovering truth, you wouldn't have read past the second paragraph of that leftist diatribe.

Specifically, this:

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Some call it the "parade of ants"; others the "river of iron." The Mexican government has estimated that 2,000 weapons are smuggled daily from the U.S. into Mexico. The ATF is hobbled in its effort to stop this flow. No federal statute outlaws firearms trafficking, so agents must build cases using a patchwork of often toothless laws. For six years, due to Beltway politics, the bureau has gone without permanent leadership, neutered in its fight for funding and authority. The National Rifle Association has so successfully opposed a comprehensive electronic database of gun sales that the ATF's congressional appropriation explicitly prohibits establishing one.

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That single paragraph is full of classic liberal anti-gun, anti-freedom, anti-Constitution talking points. And that doesn't even take into account the remainder of the article. No, you posted the link because you believe all of the points brought up by the author and you wanted to see what kind of mileage you could get on this forum. Now you know.

So you can take your liberal "I'm just in search of the truth" nonsense and KMA. Typical liberal BS.

Feel free to substitute "progressive" for "liberal". Both are equally nauseating.

Not reading this... I can already tell it's going to piss me off...

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

BS. John Kerry is a military veteran and likes to parade around with a shotgun to show his "real" support of the 2nd Amendment and the Constitution. So I'm not really impressed with your little list.

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Darn. That cuts me real deep.

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If you were so concerned with the Constitution and supporting gun rights, not to mention having such high standards for discovering truth, you wouldn't have read past the second paragraph of that leftist diatribe.

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You read past the second paragraph, by your admission. Does that mean that you lack concern for the Constitution and gun rights?

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Specifically, this:

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Yet you feel the urge to repost that paragraph so that all here can read it?

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That single paragraph is full of classic liberal anti-gun, anti-freedom, anti-Constitution talking points. And that doesn't even take into account the remainder of the article.

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Well, since I'm not familiar with anti-gun, anti-freedom or anti-Constitution talking points, classic or Reformed, I'll have to defer to your judgment.

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No, you posted the link because you believe all of the points brought up by the author and you wanted to see what kind of mileage you could get on this forum. Now you know.

So you can take your liberal "I'm just in search of the truth" nonsense and KMA. Typical liberal BS.

Feel free to substitute "progressive" for "liberal". Both are equally nauseating.

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So now you're a mindreader? You have no way of knowing my motivation for any action. You, like everyone, filter what you read or see through your own biases, but that doesn't make for cogent arguments.