I can't boycott he NFL. Never watched them, bought any team stuff and certainly don't go to games. They never got a dime from me.
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I can't boycott he NFL. Never watched them, bought any team stuff and certainly don't go to games. They never got a dime from me.
6:17pm 10/30 but this forum seems very quiet today with little to no activities.
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Originally Posted by MrPrena
If you're unarmed you are a victim
Surprised they haven't benched Siemian for Osweiller yet....that O line ain't looking good at all
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by wyome
Siemian is not the quarterback of the future.
Patriot Garoppolo going to unpatriotic 49ners. [LOL]
Wait, there was a game today?
Nah, there wasn't a World Series game tonight.
It wasn't a good game....as for baseball...GO Yankees!....oh wait nvmQuote:
Originally Posted by 68Charger
Funny thing. My 12 yo son likes to watch people play video games on YT and TV. I think it's silly, but then I thought that it's no more silly than watching people playing any other game.
Just saw this today:
Papa John's CEO not happy with NFL leadership
Quote:
In a conference call regarding the company’s disappointing third quarter earnings, Papa John’s CEO John Schnatter blamed company struggles on the NFL’s lingering anthem controversy. And he blamed the NFL’s lingering anthem controversy on NFL leadership.
“Good or bad, leadership starts at the top and this is an example of poor leadership,” Schnatter said in prepared remarks, via Chris Otts of WDRB.com. “This should have been nipped in the bud a year and a half ago.”
In MLB, even foreign national players stood up for national anthem.
Except for that one Catcher that just got arrested on a gun charge
I’m sorry, but that is just loser talk. “I can’t sell my shitty pizza because fans hate the NFL.”Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
Suck it up, buttercup. Pizza Hut, Dominos, Papa Murphy, and a thousand mom and pops can sell pizza without complaining. Admittedly, they ALL have a much better product than your crap, though.
Dumb do what dumb does. At least try to find other way to protest instead of copying nfl. Or at least obey the law before protesting (copying).Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyfairbanks
ODarvish stood up during national anthem even when dumbass Cuban racist made racist gesture on a national TV.
BTW Darvish will be pitching today for Dodgers.
I'm guessing Papa John's spends a lot of coin to advertise during an NFL televised game. They see a decline of pizzas going out the door during venues they sink a lot of money in, bottom line. Too bad it's not because of American values and principles being crapped on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
It's great to watch this whole thing dismantle itself, there will be more sponsors and advertisers bowing out because of their projected earnings are in the tank. Empty seats = less beer, right?
It's amazing to me that owners and management are blind to what is happening!! They need to do something fast, this year is going to be very hard to recover from (and I couldn't care less). In the mean time, screw the NFL and their sponsors.
Yeah, but those other folks don't have sponsorships with the NFL, MLB, and NHL. This is an advertiser that's not getting what they negotiated in their sponsorship deal. I bet you'd also be pissed if you didn't get what you've payed for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
ETA: And they're right. The rule book listed player expectations with penalties and they didn't enforce it. This is completely in the NFL league management's lap.
I cannot agree even a little. “Papa” is getting exactly what he paid for: airtime during a game. There is no way his contract has some sort of negotiated “behavior of the NFL” clause in it. I’d also be surprised if there were some sort of “declining ratings” clause.
If you are dumb enough to expect a league of athletes to somehow behave and not manage to otherwise alienate sections of the fanbase, you get exactly what you deserve. That goes double if it is the child abusers, wife beaters, drug abusers, and assault & battery crew that is the NFL & NBA. How can you seriously think that is what you are getting when you sign on with the league that has been OK with this for generations?
The NFL is OK with letting Ray Lewis and Michael Vick back in, but hey guys - clean it up and follow the rules: pizza guy wants a clean image.
Subjective much? I'll take Papa John's over Pizza hut and Dominoes any day, Papa Murphy's is a different comparison all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
You can have my slices for life, friend. [Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
I’ll be the first to admit I think their pizza is absolutely disgusting. I haven’t had it since HS and the sight makes me ill. The others are more or less serviceable. Additionally, his commercials are terrible, and I love commercials. That’s subjective.
Objectively - I don’t feel bad for anyone that partners with the NFL (or the other sports leagues - or various entertainment venues) and then doesn’t like the outcome. Athletes, musicians, and actors behave badly. It is what they do. If you have an edgy product, it might work for you. You want a clean image and sign on with that? I’m glad because it makes me laugh when I see articles like the one cited above. Even better that it happens to a company I dislike, personally.
Pizza guy and every other advertiser wants eyes on the tube. The league wants to whistle past the graveyard like they're not losing their fan base, but when the advertisers are feeling the pinch, that's not the reality of the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
I miss the old days when a coach would send a bad apple packing no matter how well they played the game.
It is unfortunate. Modern foozball years, it is upto Coach+GM+President+and franchisee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
This I all can agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
When you think of what it takes to be in the NFL, for the entire history of the league, football has always drawn some of the more or less maladjusted and colorful characters to say the least. But there are more bad apples now. Sharpie a tribute on your cleats? League goes nuts. Deal in cocaine or “purple drank” or whatever else - you can come back. While an Anti-American protest may or may not have been expected, what could be reasonably expected is how randomly the league deals with it (or not deals with it) - and “Papa” should have expected as much. I’m sure Payton Manning will still pretend to be his friend if he keeps paying him, though.
Haha! Fact.Quote:
I’m sure Payton Manning will still pretend to be his friend if he keeps paying him, though.
Ironically, the cash is flowing the other way there. Manning owns several franchise stores, but pays fees and percentages to corporate.Quote:
Originally Posted by GilpinGuy
Ha! Quarterback and aspiring pizza mogul.
My subjectivity aside, I have to wonder if he wouldn’t do better with his own name.
No, he's NOT getting what he paid for. That's why he's complaining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
If someone ordered a pizza from PJs and it tasted like shit, would you say "well, serves them right, they ordered from Papa Johns so they got what they deserved?"
Maybe you would but you'd be wrong: Whatever your subjective opinion of them, Papa John's promised that buyer a good pizza and if they don't deliver on that promise, buyer is entitled to be pissed off at PJs for failing.
In the same way, Papa John's paid the NFL X brazillian dollars to advertise with the expectation that they would get Y Brazilian eyeballs watching their commercials.
They got that expectation because the NFL told them "these are our ratings for 2016 and we project that in 2017 the ratings will go from Y Brazilian to Z Brazilian." That was the expectation that they SOLD to Papa John's.
Every advertiser has $$ to pay for advertising and every venue that sells advertising - whether it is the NFL or Dancing With the Stars, sells its advertising with the explicit promise to advertisers that "if you put this ad on our program you will have X number of people watching and that will result in sales." That's how advertising works.
If the ratings are now showing that instead of Y Brazilians or Z Brazilians of eyeballs watching PJ commercials, there are actually only Y minus 10% Brazilians watching, then PJ's is entitled to be pissed because just like the angry pizza customer, they didn't get what they paid for.
IIRC, you are an attorney, correct? I’ll have to defer contracts to you, if so. I am not, but I sure read and review a lot of contracts for business purposes.
I still cannot agree on the point or the analogy, and although I agree that any “buyer is entitled to be pissed off” -I won’t agree that it is with merit. What is a “good” pizza, objectively and contractually? What is my expectation? That every ingredient is there? I might have an expectation around temperature range or microbiological quality, but not taste. I couldn’t get any contract so ill defined as “taste” past any attorneys I’ve worked with.
So – My question: this keeps pointing to the NFL, but did he sign a contract *for airtime* with the NFL?
His contract with the NFL is probably to put his logo on their banners or vice-versa with him putting their logo on his boxes or whatever, and is probably separate and independent from his contracts with TV.
His airtime contract (expectation of Y Brazilian eyeballs) is with the networks, right? Again, I don’t do advertising, but my impression of those sales is such that they do make a prediction (Y Brazilian eyeballs) and sell him a contract based on that, but when it becomes Y -10%, he gets makegoods (the airtime he is due), which he may or may not be pissed about but the guy is on TV constantly. In fact, my other impression is that networks tend to attempt to oversell slightly since Y+10% is seen as far more problematic economically. I still say he paid for airtime, he is getting airtime. His axe to grind is as subjective as my opinion on his pizza.
Even still, there are any number of reasons tastes can change viewership of the NFL. Is he pissed about the concussion movie? The kneeling down is lame, but expecting some sort of consistent code of conduct with the NFL is absurd.
Yes but that sale was based on an expectation, and if the NFL is either acting or failing to act in such a way that it undermines PJ's reasonable expectation, then the buyer is entitled to be angry because he's not getting what he paid for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
I think you're getting confused about the legal issues. This is not a legal issue - AFAIK, PJs is not trying to sue NFL for breach of contract.
Instead, he's an angry customer who was sold something that he thought would be valuable and PJ's contends is now LESS valuable because of the actions (or inactions) of the NFL.
So it's not a legal issue - nobody is questioning that he paid for airtime and got airtime, and again, AFAIK he's not trying to get out of paying the NFL (my assumption is he's already paid.) He's angry because he paid this money and didn't get the value he'd expected.
So what? He's entitled to his subjective opinion, just as you are entitled to yours.Quote:
His axe to grind is as subjective as my opinion on his pizza.
If they sell him something, is he not entitled to expect that they, the NFL, won't deliberately do something that diminishes the value of what PJs bought?Quote:
Even still, there are any number of reasons tastes can change viewership of the NFL. Is he pissed about the concussion movie? The kneeling down is lame, but expecting some sort of consistent code of conduct with the NFL is absurd.
Here's an analogy: Lets say you need a place to live, so you look around and find a decent apartment. You go look at the apartment in the daytime, everything's fine. You sign a 1 year lease.
Two days after moving in, the people in the apartment below you start cooking meth. The smell is awful. You call the police, they arrest the perpetrators but the landlord does nothing to clean up the mess and it makes your place unlivable.
Are you entitled to be pissed off? Hey, you paid for an apartment and you got an apartment, right? So what are you complaining about, you got what you paid for didn't you?
I think we are disagreeing on the basic underlying assumptions. Is the issue what he paid for or expectations?
We both agree he paid for airtime and got airtime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
You think PJ has a reasonable expectation, and I disagree. -That’s cool.
PJ wants a clean NFL, he wants eyeballs on it, and he wants NFL fans to order pizza. I don’t think any of those are reasonable to guarantee, personally, and I don’t think any are fair to hang on a tiger that’ll never change his stripes.
I might put forth that a better analogy would be PJ (or me) watching that apartment for 30 years, doing off and on business with the landlord, and watching the types of clientele, perhaps meth buyers and sellers, going in and out of the door for years, with various levels of “clean up.” Then PJ (or me) decides to jump in and later complain that the place is full of smelly criminals. I don’t think I have much right to be pissed off. And that’s why I laugh that PJ spoke up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
I don’t think we’ll agree on it, which is fine. If you think he has a legit beef, I guess buy some pizza. [Dunno]
Tangential thought 2: Based on this thread, and the 49er suppressor thread, is there any evidence to suggest the NFL thinks they are diminishing their value? They seem kind of proud of all of this. NFL and PJ may have something of a values mismatch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
Maybe they've made the decision that red-blooded Americans aren't who they want to target anymore and that SJWs are a more lucrative audience.
What ever happened to Craig Morton?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
Dang, I didn't know Papa John's was selling Brazilian Pizza's in Brazil to Brazilians for Brazilian dollarsQuote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
Attachment 72428
watching Brazilian football.
Attachment 72427
Learn something new everyday.
[Beer]
I am getting strong urge to make a new thread with title, "anyone else fed up with papa Johns delivery?"
Whenever someone pays big coin to advertise because of association with a celebrity or popular event, they are paying that coin to get a positive association. Papa John's pays the networks for the airtime, they pay the NFL to be an official sponsor because of the positive benefit that conveys. When said benefit is no longer positive because of misbehavior or failure to enforce behavior standards, the advertiser certainly does have the right to complain. S/he may not have a right to a refund but s/he can certainly complain that the NFL is mismanaging the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
... and examples like that are why the NFL lost me before this new controversy started but it obviously didn't affect most of the fanbase. The new controversy is different, it definitely HAS had an effect on sales of all kinds of related products -- I would expect all the advertisers to have words with the NFL. If they didn't they should just suck up continued reductions in demand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
... and your post loses credibility when you claim Domino's has better pizza. I might give you Pizza Hut despite all the grease in their crust but Domino's with the cardboard crust? Never!
When was the last time you had Dominos? HahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
I don't have an issue with Michael Vick. He did his time and once out, still had some gas left. Now Ray Lewis - yes I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski
Here are a couple of interesting articles on the NFL ratings:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...or-second-year
https://www.wsj.com/articles/overexp...oes-1509615005
The first one mentions Papa Schatt himself, and he blames revenue growth failure on the NFL, but meanwhile Bloomberg and WSJ are noting the decline definitely precedes this latest controversy and is more likely due to bad matchups, loss of superstars, dilution of product and overexposure, and they have data to back this.
So I stand by my original assertion - loser talk. Maybe lack of growth is also due to the fact that you’ve saturated the pizza market too. Your commercials are on non-stop and every township has one of your franchises. Even fat Americans can only consume so much low-grade pizza. Pizza Hut and Dominos aren’t complaining, but as several of you point out - they didn’t hitch their wagon to the controversy. That’s fine, but I’m betting football days are some of their biggest as well.
Roffles. That’s fine, taste is subjective. Clearly all of them sell a lot of pizza, but the sight of those dipping sauces that PJ offers (or did) just make me involuntarily shudder with disgust.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
But many did and it was a PR problem. Neither were hot buttons for me (although I think both guys are pieces of shit), but merely other big NFL headaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madeinhb