I'm coming out!

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Originally Posted by Dave_L

I think you could almost argue that being religious in today's world gets you mocked more so than being gay. At least in the public eye. I hear a lot more people that think religion is foolish and think you're ignorant to believe in it. They almost look down upon you. However, coming out and being gay gets you support now. It's not quite like it was 50 years ago. I'm not saying the gay life is an easy one. But how many people mocked Tebow for his religion? No one questions someone that doesn't believe in religion but if you don't believe in gay marriage, society labels you as a bigot.

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Agreed.

If you think that being a Christian in America is seriously the same as being a homosexual then you're dumber than I give you credit for. They're not even on the same page. That's just stupid.

Knowing the trouble that being homosexual causes a person, why would anyone choose it? I've liked women since the day I was born, why can't a homosexual like their own gender from the day they were born?

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Originally Posted by Jer

If you think that being a Christian in America is seriously the same as being a homosexual then you're dumber than I give you credit for. They're not even on the same page. That's just stupid.

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I don't think it's the same. I understand the difficulties homosexuals run into. I'm saying as far as mockery goes, being either one is a risk in today's society. Look at the news article comments. There's a growing idea that religious people are crazy, prehistoric creatures that haven't been enlightened by today's "evolutions". Just a bunch of knuckle draggers that count on a fake being to take care of them.

Again, I understand the amount of ridicule a gay person must go through in some aspects of today's society. I also think that due to social media and the sorts, they've gained TONS of traction over the past few years. There's a lot more support and understanding for them compared to a decade ago. Look at how many people put the equal signs up on FB for equality. Do you think people would have done the same for a religious movement? I don't. We see more articles talking about people clamoring to remove religion from the public eye more than supporting it. Most of the support of religion comes from the local churches/groups/etc that are already believers and stick together. Very rarely will you get non-religious people to support religion. Which is fine. I'm not complaining about that. It's just interesting to see how many people publicly support/stand up for homosexuals even when it has nothing to do with them compared to other things that garner support.

Personally, I wish it was all private. Let gays be gay, let the religious practice what they want, let everyone be equal. Not everyone is always going to like what you do and that's ok as long as they offer the respect a human deserves. Don't shove your thoughts in my face and I'll do the same. It just seems that every group that's "different" asks for special attention. Gay pride has a whole parade (week?) and sorts so society isn't exactly shoving them under the rug.

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Originally Posted by Dave_L

I don't think it's the same. I understand the difficulties homosexuals run into. I'm saying as far as mockery goes, being either one is a risk in today's society. Look at the news article comments. There's a growing idea that religious people are crazy, prehistoric creatures that haven't been enlightened by today's "evolutions". Just a bunch of knuckle draggers that count on a fake being to take care of them.

Again, I understand the amount of ridicule a gay person must go through in some aspects of today's society. I also think that due to social media and the sorts, they've gained TONS of traction over the past few years. There's a lot more support and understanding for them compared to a decade ago. Look at how many people put the equal signs up on FB for equality. Do you think people would have done the same for a religious movement? I don't. We see more articles talking about people clamoring to remove religion from the public eye more than supporting it. Most of the support of religion comes from the local churches/groups/etc that are already believers and stick together. Very rarely will you get non-religious people to support religion. Which is fine. I'm not complaining about that. It's just interesting to see how many people publicly support/stand up for homosexuals even when it has nothing to do with them compared to other things that garner support.

Personally, I wish it was all private. Let gays be gay, let the religious practice what they want, let everyone be equal. Not everyone is always going to like what you do and that's ok as long as they offer the respect a human deserves. Don't shove your thoughts in my face and I'll do the same. It just seems that every group that's "different" asks for special attention. Gay pride has a whole parade (week?) and sorts so society isn't exactly shoving them under the rug.

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Do you at least understand why it's NOT private? You have freedom of religion. It's protected by your constitutional rights in fact. So no matter what, no matter how bad of a day you or Tebow is having it's ILLEGAL to be fired or have anything seriously done simply for your choice of religion. Homosexuals don't have that. They are also currently being denied rights that their heterosexual counterparts share. So, to try to paint this in a light maybe you can more understand; Say you were born to a Christian couple in a far away land. From the earliest times you can remember you were Christian but here's the kicker, this far away land doesn't recognize your right to be a Christian and in fact denies you certain things based simply on this choice. You go through life hiding your true love, your religion because to to do anything could mean career suicide and could cause you to become the target of hate. You and your parents would be shunned and possibly even harmed physically just because of the hatred present towards your 'kind' and their choice. Why don't you just choose to follow another religion after all, right? Now, imagine that you didn't even have the support of your own parents in this chaotic crazy and scary world. You were all alone and nobody knew your religion and you went through your entire life harboring this HUGE secret not because you were ashamed but because society forced you to do so. I doubt you actually went through this exercise but if you did congratulations, you may now have the slightest clue who most homosexuals go through in this country. Realistically none of us can even imagine what it wold be like to walk a mile in their shoes let alone live that way your entire life. To insinuate that religion (ESPECIALLY Christianity... the most 'normal' of them all) is anything like that today in America is offensive to anyone with common sense. You're better than that.

Keep denying them and guess what... this WILL be something that gets added to the Bill of Rights as an amendment. Believe me on that. The other rights were added because they HAD to be to be protected so guess what... keep denying them basic rights because of their sexual preference and it will be a new protected class. This is the LAST thing I want to have happen personally and I'm sure most who disagree with me can agree on that. We don't need yet another amendment for something that should just be. They should have all the same rights as any other citizen and this BS just needs to stop. This is as bad as racists 50 years ago who called black people by the N word and denied them basic human rights. How stupid & bigoted do those people feel now? How are you any different trying to deny basic rights to those who love someone different than you do?

The sooner we get serious about human rights... ALL HUMAN RIGHTS... the sooner our battle for the 2A becomes easier. I'm ashamed to be forced to belong the the community of old white ignorant assholes who hate everyone that isn't them because they're the largest supporter of 2A. You want to know why the Republican party is becoming obsolete? You're looking at one of the big reasons. Freedom and liberty is paramount... just so long as it's the types of liberties I personally support, right. Otherwise I'll put effort into squashing liberties of others because they're abominations, right? No wonder nobody is helping to fight our cause because why the hell should they support the assholes who are against them for no reason that affects them personally?

The very fact that I'm debating this mostly as a lone voice on a firearm forum and no other type of forum or even social network for that matter speaks volumes. I've got 700 'friends' on facebook and the amount of people praising god and posting Christian related posts FAR outweighs those who post homosexual supporting posts even now when the latter is focus of attention. I have a VERY hard time believing that someone as outwardly Christian as yourself has more people on his 'friends' list talking about the gays than Jesus. C'mon.

That is one helluva solid post Jer.

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Originally Posted by Sawin

Ok, either you're being disgustingly funny here, or it was the kids. I'm going to say it was the kids just for my own sanity.

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Purple headed yogurt slinger...

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Originally Posted by roberth

That is one helluva solid post Jer.

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Damn Jer, you should go into business writing college kid papers...

I think my post came across wrong or maybe you took it the wrong way. I'm all for 100% equal rights. I think all couples should be civil unions and get the same government benefits. Let the churches do the "marriage" designation. Since were to keep church and state seperate. I know its a huge step for equality and dont mean to take that away. People just need to learn to agree to disagree and move on. Just because I may not agree with something doesn't mean I'm trying to deny someone else's rights or think they're evil. I'm not that thick headed. I do think that most people hurting this cause are the heterosexual people that demand everyone be ok with it. Maybe that's where I'm.ignorant since I think we can disagree on issues without denying rights. Christians are guilty of casting homosexuals away and calling them horrible people. I'm sure we agree on that. I've moved away from "organized" religion bc of all the negative connotations that come with it. Jesus accepted all people and did things to help and lift people up. He did it through actions, not condescending talks. So I hope this clears it up a bit. Give people the same respect and rights across the board. But that doesn't mean you have to agree with everything. There is a difference.

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Originally Posted by buckshotbarlow

Damn Jer, you should go into business writing college kid papers...

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I guess it's that Nebraska public high school education doing it's work.

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Originally Posted by Dave_L

I think my post came across wrong or maybe you took it the wrong way. I'm all for 100% equal rights. I think all couples should be civil unions and get the same government benefits. Let the churches do the "marriage" designation. Since were to keep church and state seperate. I know its a huge step for equality and dont mean to take that away. People just need to learn to agree to disagree and move on. Just because I may not agree with something doesn't mean I'm trying to deny someone else's rights or think they're evil. I'm not that thick headed. I do think that most people hurting this cause are the heterosexual people that demand everyone be ok with it. Maybe that's where I'm.ignorant since I think we can disagree on issues without denying rights. Christians are guilty of casting homosexuals away and calling them horrible people. I'm sure we agree on that. I've moved away from "organized" religion bc of all the negative connotations that come with it. Jesus accepted all people and did things to help and lift people up. He did it through actions, not condescending talks. So I hope this clears it up a bit. Give people the same respect and rights across the board. But that doesn't mean you have to agree with everything. There is a difference.

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I don't see it as you agreeing with me. A 'civil union' is not getting married. Why can't they just get married? Why does it have to be so complicated? People want to say 'let them have a civil union and straight people can be married since it's a different for those who are religious'. First of all, Marriage was an institution long before the bible named it specifically so those who are religious don't have sole ownership of this term or this idea much as they would have you believe. Secondly, as long as there are two separate classes (civil unions & marriages) there can never be equality. I never said you have to agree with them getting married because there are straight couples who I disagree with getting married all the time and I'm usually proven right within two years. That's also because I know them as people and has NOTHING to do with race, religion, sexuality or anything else that shouldn't be of my concern. At the same time to think that I should somehow be the one to say they CAN'T get married is arrogance on a whole other level.

Then, Once they're allowed to enter into a marriage just like you and I, we'll work on the stupid credits and perks the government gives for those who are married or have kids or whatever. For now that's a completely different topic and saying we need to work on that first is a stall tactic some use that's preventing those who love someone from being able to marry them.

You don't have to be 'ok' with it but as a human being you shouldn't be willing to prevent it either.