True, unfortunately now-a-days it seems like you're "guilty until proven innocent". HA.
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True, unfortunately now-a-days it seems like you're "guilty until proven innocent". HA.
So sad and so true. It seems these days if the govt wants you to be guilty, then you'll be found guilty. Of course if you're blessed with a ton of cash in your wallet, then you'll prob get off even if you are guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBear
As for the whole BoS thing, I agree it's bull and shouldn't even be thought of. Would you require a BoS if you were selling someone a knife or a bow? No. The private sale of firearms should be no different. We need to shrug off this mentality the govt and media are trying to ingrain in our collective brains that firearms are bad and need to be regulated/banned. The moment they get our guns, liberty dies. History as shown us this time and time again.
When I have conducted private sales in the past I have ALWAYS written a bill of sale.
One line I have included is this:
"Is there ANY reason that you are not lawfully able to purchase/own a firearm?"
I have the purchaser initial and or sign next to it.
This shows that you, the seller has taken reasonable means to ensure that you are not selling a firearm to a "Prohibited Person".
It will absolve you of culpability if in fact the purchaser is unable to lawfully own a firearm.
I also include the date and time of the transaction.
A bill of sale just makes good sense. It gives you a bit of CYA if the purchaser decides to make poor choices with the firearm YOU sold them.
[Beer]
Just to play devil's advocate: Do you really think a little hand-written note is going to absolve you of culpability? What if the person lied, had a fake id, etc? The fact you didn't take the time validate this info probably opens you up to other levels of liability hell. Remember, 'reasonable means' is in the eye of the jury selected to judge you.
If you are truly serious about CYA then the only real option is to only sell your firearms on consignment through a FFL holder who will do a background check on the buyer before allowing the transfer. But then that doesn't really make it a private sale anymore and lets the govt intrude even further in our lives.
CO law doesn't require a BoS between private individuals. That should be enough.
That little hand written note is also a legally binding contract when signed by both parties. It may not be required but it does give you CYA.
"CO law doesn't require a BoS between private individuals. That should be enough."
I agree. It is enough. Let's keep that the norm, as IT SHOULD BE!
Some of you here are harshing on my 2nd Amendment buzz. Cut your shit.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhunter
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by mutt
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
If it gives you a warm fuzzy, go with it, but realize that there are plenty of folks (such as ME) that you'd be cutting out as prospective buyers.Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoManiac7
BINGO! Agree with everything you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by mutt
This exact debate crops up on this site about every six to nine months. I don't recall ever seeing anyone participate in this conversation that wasn't polarized to one side or the other. All I ask is that while we may not agree with the opinions of others, we at least remember to show them respect.
Folks, as a seller you are certainly entitled to set the rules of engagement for the transfer of a firearm or any other item you wish to part with. If you want the buyer to stand on their head while whistling Dixie, that's your choice. Realize that any requirement you set beyond what the law requires will quickly eliminate potential buyers.
Let's just say that you get a BoS from a buyer, then 5, 10, or 15 years down the road that buyer or any subsequent owner (including someone possessing the gun by theft) uses the firearm in a crime. Now, assuming the police are able to trace this back to YOU, you tell them "yeah, I sold it and I have a BoS to prove it". What do you think your chances are that you'll be able to find that BoS? What do you suppose the LEO's will think when you can't produce the BoS that you swore you had?
Personally, I won't sell a firearm to someone that I don't have some prior association with. Sorry in advance to any newbies on this site as I wouldn't even consider you as a potential buyer unless you were either (a) active on this site for at least a couple of months, or (b) you'd been a member here for a couple of years, or, lastly (c) you are an Industry Partner on this site. THIS is the best protection I can imagine for myself.
Again, if requiring a BoS, copy of a buyers DL, pic of buyer, fingerprints, blood, first-born child, etc., gives you a warm fuzzy, go with it. The one thing you MUST abide by is identifying any and all requirements up front when you initially put the item up for sale/trade. If I were to show up to purchase a firearm from you and you sprung any of these requirements on me without warning I'd turn and walk away without another word, come back to my PC and bash the hell out of you over and over again on this site for your dishonesty, and I'd guarantee that I'd dislike and distrust you for life.
I will not live in fear.
Can we agree that it is illegal even for private sellers to sell handguns to anybody who is under 21 years of age or not a legal resident of Colorado?
So how can you be certain that the transaction is legal without checking a pictured ID? I am not trying to make this a debate of the constitutional right. Rather, I am trying to find a balance between buyer's privacy and seller's legal cover.
I do recall that the two persons who sold the pistol to Klebold and Harris were convicted in the criminal case.
Would you say you're afraid to live in fear?