WTF ? A simple rant.

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Originally Posted by MrPrena

Abolish tip system.

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I think it will eventually wither away.

If you think about it, there are three "stake holders" in a restaurant business: The business owner, the employee, and the customer.

The "tip" system benefits two of those stake holders: The business, which gets to get away with paying sub-standard wages to employees in the expectation that the customer will make up the difference in tips, and a small percentage of employees who make more in tips than they would likely make in a wage-based employment setup. Those are the two groups that are going to be most resistant to the end of the tipping culture.

I think what it's going to take is for a few high profile restaurants to decide that instead of tipping, they'll pay their employees a reasonable wage, raise prices to accommodate that wage, and then tell customers that they need not tip. As soon as one or two big players do that, and it works (which I think it will because for every waiter/waitress who makes good money on tips, there are probably at least two that barely scrape by) the practice will catch on.

Tipping will likely continue in bar/nightclub settings were sexual titillation can lead to higher tips for good looking waitresses/bartenders. But speaking as a customer, I would gladly patronize a "no tipping" restaurant where I know exactly what the price will be up front without having to calculate a tip.

If you do away with tipping in restaurants, do you do away with all tipping? Furniture movers, housekeepers/bellhops, hunting/fishing guides, etc?

It's kind of interesting which people you tip and which you don't. Housekeeper gets a tip but my mechanic doesn't.

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Originally Posted by fj605

It's kind of interesting which people you tip and which you don't. Housekeeper gets a tip but my mechanic doesn't.

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Your mechanic works flat rate so he already charged you for three hours of his time for the forty-five minutes of work he did so a tip probably isn?t necessary.

If you don?t tip the housekeepers they?ll probably steal your stuff.

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Originally Posted by fj605

If you do away with tipping in restaurants, do you do away with all tipping? Furniture movers, housekeepers/bellhops, hunting/fishing guides, etc?

It's kind of interesting which people you tip and which you don't. Housekeeper gets a tip but my mechanic doesn't.

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I would love to do away with all tipping. Tipping is an anachronism based on the idea of extremely poor people (servant class) providing services to extremely rich people (Landed gentry, wealthy, etc.) The idea is that tipping was a way of the rich acknowledging their superior positions over the poor by tossing them a few table scraps that they'd be happy to get. It basically carries with it the assumption that the person being tipped has no other options so tipping them is kind of a way to say "sorry you're poor, here's some money."

The fancy-schmancy Latin term for it is "noblesse oblige", i.e. the "obligations of the noble."

In the service-industry context (waiters or servers) the idea is that you use the tip as a kind of reward (or the possibility of not getting a tip as a punishment.) But, again, we don't do that in other types of service businesses.

Call me crazy but it seems to me that if you're providing a service, you ought to be able to negotiate what you think is a fair price, which the other person is then free to pay or not to pay and you are free to provide, or not provide, that service.

Let's say a hunting guide's rates are $200/day for 3 days of hunting, for a total of $600 (I've never hired a hunting guide so I have no idea what a guide goes for, I'm just pulling that number out of thin air.) If the "expectation" is that there will be a ~$100 tip on top of that, wouldn't it make more sense for the guide to just charge the customer $700? I mean, if that's the value of the service provided, then that should be the cost, right?

I guess the idea behind tipping a hunting guide was that if he has to hustle for a tip, he's going to do a better job, whereas if there's no tip, he'll do a half-assed job.

But is that really the way it goes? Because word of mouth is important in the service industry and if that guide charges a specific price - without a tip - and does a half-assed job, he's not likely to get re-hired. OTOH the guy who does a great job - whether he gets a tip or not - is likely to have people lined up down the block for his services - which ultimately benefits him more than if he got a $100 tip from this or that customer.

"Noblesse Oblige" might have made sense in 17th century England where you were born into one class and stayed there your entire life, but in modern day America where (presumably) people are free to sell their services to the highest bidder, it makes no sense at all.

I know many more countries than 12 that doesn't require tipping. I know Netherlands and Germany (at least 21 years ago) doesn't expect customers to tip.


Some countries waiter%waitress will walk all the way to parking lot to tell you that you forgot to take your money from the table.


https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...e-a-tip-2016-3

I always tip just to let the poor people know where they stand in society.

People who don?t tip are just acknowledging that they are also lower class like the people providing them the service.

I wouldn?t want to be mistaken for poor by not tipping.

I freakin hate the tip question that pops up at the register at every "fast casual" restaurant when you checkout. Why TF would I tip someone for taking 30secs to give me the food I just paid for?

Or the recommended 20% tip when you pay for takeout at a real restaurant. Seriously?!?! They want to recommend I tip them the same amount as I do a person who spent an hour literally waiting on me? The takeout counter people put shit in a bag...that's never worth a 20% tip.

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Originally Posted by hollohas

I freakin hate the tip question that pops up at the register at every "fast casual" restaurant when you checkout. Why TF would I tip someone for taking 30secs to give me the food I just paid for?

Or the recommended 20% tip when you pay for takeout at a real restaurant. Seriously?!?! They want to recommend I tip them the same amount as I do a person who spent an hour literally waiting on me? The takeout counter people put shit in a bag...that's never worth a 20% tip.

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Just tip them anyways so they won?t forget they?re second class citizens.

I find that restaurants can put the right thing in bags and the drivers can't grab the right bag. The only places that come close to getting it right are the old school Chinese and pizza places. Everything else is a crap shoot- and that is with electronic ordering, so you can't blame miscommunication on it.

What gets me is that the tip is based on the price of the food? Does Uber drive me to the airport based on my net worth or how much my luggage is worth? Come up with a fee based on the mileage and if the restaurant is a pain- tough parking, slow production.

Frankly, we use it more than we should because we have a 16yo boy at home with a car. Somehow he skates often on being our personal Uber.

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Originally Posted by Martinjmpr

I think it will eventually wither away.

If you think about it, there are three "stake holders" in a restaurant business: The business owner, the employee, and the customer.

The "tip" system benefits two of those stake holders: The business, which gets to get away with paying sub-standard wages to employees in the expectation that the customer will make up the difference in tips, and a small percentage of employees who make more in tips than they would likely make in a wage-based employment setup. Those are the two groups that are going to be most resistant to the end of the tipping culture.

I think what it's going to take is for a few high profile restaurants to decide that instead of tipping, they'll pay their employees a reasonable wage, raise prices to accommodate that wage, and then tell customers that they need not tip. As soon as one or two big players do that, and it works (which I think it will because for every waiter/waitress who makes good money on tips, there are probably at least two that barely scrape by) the practice will catch on.

Tipping will likely continue in bar/nightclub settings were sexual titillation can lead to higher tips for good looking waitresses/bartenders. But speaking as a customer, I would gladly patronize a "no tipping" restaurant where I know exactly what the price will be up front without having to calculate a tip.

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I was in the restaurant business for 14 years. Started as dishwasher and went as far as part owner.

The margins are very slim. If an owner is required to pay service staff minimum wage or more, the menu prices you pay will increase around 20% to cover the addition payroll costs.

I would like you define "substandard wages" since less than minimum wage is the standard and despite your assertion, most front of house employees take home more than if they were waged.