National CCW reciprocity bill clears House panel

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Originally Posted by DOC

Anyone that thinks a CCW permit should be like or isn't the same as a DL. Think about all the trouble one has to go through to get a DL and Register your car. And think of the punishments that are given out if you don't comply 100%. Do you really want that for your guns? And do you see the .gov doing it any different because its guns? I don't and I don't see them changing it one bit.
If it was a national permitless CCW with no attachments I would support it. That way it would work and there would be no reason to mess with it later on.
Make it an Amendment to the constitution. Like the second one after the one barring the congress from making laws against free speech.

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Now you want to make an amendment to the constitution? Good luck with all that. We can't even agree as 2nd amendment lovers the best way to pass a bill that's completely pro-2nd amendment yet you think we're ready to write an amendment tot he US Constitution? C'mon people! This is just crazy. Let's focus on the small battles such as this before we try to win the entire war.

I love the people who are saying 'Don't give me too many freedoms or liberties or that might be used against me later to take some away.' Seriously?!? Tell you what, return all my liberties tomorrow that have been taken away over the decades in the name of security and let me fight to keep them. As it is we're fighting to keep what we have so why in the heck are we battling amongst ourselves when a bill is presented to help return some of those liberties? All this bill serves is to require states to recognize the individual's right to conceal carry. This isn't regulated or controlled one bit at the federal level as it will still be up to individual states as to their specific laws pertaining to this as they currently do and always have.

This bill does NOT require a federal CCW permit. It simply requires states that already issue them to their residents to recognize the permits in good standing held by residents of other states. Period. Where in that do you see federal government regulation? The fear mongering on this one is out of control. No wonder we can't manage to maintain our rights as a society when the people who wish to take them away are FAR better organized on an end-game.

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Originally Posted by Jer

To those who say this isn't like DL it absolutely is. It's a county issued state permit to do something. Each state sets it's own laws which you MUST obey when you're in that state but your permit is still relevant w/o any further steps. The federal government said it was imperative for each and every state to recognize other state's driving permits. The federal government doesn't mandate what is or isn't required to have said permit but most states require about the same thing. We don't have massive federal oppression of this permit to have this made uniform either.

To those who say they don't want the federal government involved and this isn't what the federal government is responsible for I disagree. Completely. You talk about states rights as if it somehow is above the individual's rights. This is EXACTLY what the federal government was created for... to protect the individual's constitutional rights against the power of the state government. This is EXACTLY what we're talking about here because it's bad enough we're required to apply for and qualify for a permit to conceal and carry a firearm. Let's brush past that fact for a moment here since it's an entirely other topic. This is a bill at the federal level that will return the INDIVIDUAL's rights back to them by saying 'Hey state, if you allow your citizens to have a CCW permit then you MUST allow those who have obtained the permit from their own state the same rights in our state when traveling to your state.' which is something some states can't seem to figure out on their own. You still can't carry within the city limits of Chicago and others who have chosen to not allow it as well as schools bars or whatever that state has set as a law so this won't change that. It's up to the individual to know what those laws are of the state they're traveling to and obey them just like operating a motor vehicle. Listen, I'm all for states rights but we're talking about individual rights that are protected by the individual and have been taken away for far too long. What is the other option if not using the federal government for what it was put in place for?

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The only problem I find with this analogy is that traffic laws are substantially uniform nationwide, while CCW laws are vastly different from one city to another, let alone one state to another. Imagine how jacked up the traffic laws would be if the state you lived in required only 2 headlights, but one of the states you planed to drive through required 3, and the next state over limited you to one, but it must be on at all times while driving. If there is going to be universal reciprocity on CCW, then the CCW laws nationwide would need to be substantially uniform, and the only way that is going to happen is if the federal government codifies the regulations, which CAN"T be good for firearms owners, as the only way the nanny states will sign on is if it meets their restrictive criteria. There is a whole set of federal regulations that govern virtually every aspect of vehicle construction and safety, licensing (especially commercial), road construction criteria, lighting, signage, and on and on and on. If you don't think this has created a huge bureaucracy, I'll point out USDOT, EPA, NHTSA, and others as diverse as the Commerce Department and Department of Defense, that all have some influence over the simple act of driving your car,even if you never leave your home state.

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

The only problem I find with this analogy is that traffic laws are substantially uniform nationwide, while CCW laws are vastly different from one city to another, let alone one state to another. Imagine how jacked up the traffic laws would be if the state you lived in required only 2 headlights, but one of the states you planed to drive through required 3, and the next state over limited you to one, but it must be on at all times while driving. If there is going to be universal reciprocity on CCW, then the CCW laws nationwide would need to be substantially uniform, and the only way that is going to happen is if the federal government codifies the regulations, which CAN"T be good for firearms owners, as the only way the nanny states will sign on is if it meets their restrictive criteria. There is a whole set of federal regulations that govern virtually every aspect of vehicle construction and safety, licensing (especially commercial), road construction criteria, lighting, signage, and on and on and on. If you don't think this has created a huge bureaucracy, I'll point out USDOT, EPA, NHTSA, and others as diverse as the Commerce Department and Department of Defense, that all have some influence over the simple act of driving your car,even if you never leave your home state.

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If you think they're uniform nationwide then you need to travel by car more because they vary greatly from state to state. Hell, even the interstate system (built by the federal government) has varying laws from state to state and you can be on the same highway driving through three states and have three different speed limits.

Now, to address the part in bold above. Why would this HAVE to be this way? States are free to set their own speed limit or remove them entirely which has even been tried by a few states. Keep in mind that's on federally built Interstate highways. This takes me back to my comparison of CCW to driving permits because individual states issue and control these w/o the hand of the federal government. They determine who can and can't drive and even what infractions can take away and how long that's taken away and what is done to get it back as well as a myriad of things I won't get into here. Suffice it to say that this comparison is closer than some want to admit. It also is a great example of how the federal government requiring states honor reciprocity across the board served to lift the individual's rights above that of the government to govern against this and all w/o needing to intervene in a bad way later on.

Even if the Feds decided they needed to regulate these states laws on firearms it wouldn't be part of this bill it would require another act of congress and how well do you think that would do? Comparing to DL again what if tomorrow the federal government said they could govern driving permits better and they wanted an act of congress to take control of this. How well do you think that would play out? I'm pretty sure we can ALL agree that allowing the federal government to control who gets CCW permits and how would be a BAD thing and there's no way such an act would pass. Let's take this bill for exactly what it reads rather than saying what 'could' happen even though it wont. Fight one battle at a time and right now this is one battle we can win that will help advance our war against those who wish to take away our rights.

The drivers permit comparison to conceal carry permit is valid because that's exactly what this bill would do for CCW that it did so long ago for driving permits. It would require states that grant permits to carry to their residents to honor the permits of those from other states exactly as it did with drivers permits. States and cities are still free to tell you how this plays out the same as their own residents but they can no longer put different laws on those who live in-state compared to those from out-of-state. In other words, here's our laws... if you have a permit from our state or another they are all the same. Just like drivers permits.

Can somebody point out to me in the constitution where congress has the authority to pass this law?