Christians on the board...

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Originally Posted by dan512

Yeah, God is on the throne, He is in control. Those is power have been put there by Him. We are to submit to them unless they ask us to do something contrary to His law. This doesn't mean we blindly accept what is happening. We can speak against them, vote against them, run against them and ask others to do the same. We can't shoot them in their sleep.
They can kill my body, that would suck, but not as bad as Him sending me away from His presence.
Christianity pretty much promises suffering, espically for His name. We shouldn't be surprised.

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^^This....

I wish I had more time to opine. The "Big Picture" is always under His control. Our personal lives and personal responsibilities lay with our personal relationship with Him. I toil with this daily, even more so with career implications. The scripture does not tell us to submit to authority, specifying that it has to be what we consider "honorable" or "just" authority. Christ spoke of this submission as he was under the rule of Roman gov't and was ultimately crucified under Pilate! That is the ultimate in submission and Hallelujah for us all that Christ did submit. Even in the garden, Christ toiled with His coming crucifixion.

I would only add this for now. Whatever authority you are under, they CANNOT make you do something that is against His will. That ultimate decision is on you. Let's be pragmatic here. While the gov't may create more laws restricting us, burdening us, taxing us...etc. They can't FORCE you to murder someone, they can't FORCE you to have an abortion, they can't FORCE you to enslave another. Those are still decisions made by free men. Freedom is found in choices. Paul found himself many times imprisoned, beaten and stoned for the righteous work of spreading the Kingdom. RARE is the man today who is willing to step out in that much faith. That is where I feel the struggle the most. I think of how scripture shows us that Paul, while imprisoned, would sing songs of joy to our Lord. That is a man who knew the face of Christ. To know such persecution and find joy in the midst. That is the faith of a man we should all strive toward as believers. :)

John 15:18
18“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.19If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.20Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.

Persecution is certain as a follower of Christ.

Our founding fathers had something we do not, and will never know. They had a small enough / manageable enough population of citizens with common (for the most part) goals and direction. To be free men. ALL pinnacle societies fall. The US will not be the exception. The arrogance of our society to believe that we can "control" things such as violence is astounding. Since the beginning of time, rulers and societies have risen and fallen with nothing more than a whimper because of Man's sinful nature. We must do whatever we have within our "span of control" to Love others as Christ would so that His light should pierce the darkness in every form. It is a war that will not be won until He comes again.

In Him,

ShelbyJK

Very good thread. I two years ago, was almost killed by Mother Nature , being now on #7 of 9 lives. It made me realize I am here for some more, started going to church for the 1st time in 39 years. I found it was the something I needed in my life. That being said I am not the model Christian by any means!! But truely what does that have to do with me being excepted by god ? Not a damn thing, god lays out what a man role is in life, a marriage,leader etc , I will not be judged by some bible thumping freak, the ones that judge are really not Christian's, they are fakes. I believe and live my life, make my decissions with god in mind, but they are my choices, but mistakes or not god will not judge me! Here is my thoughts on the politicians, they put their hand on the bible and swear to everything our country stands for, so help me god! Key word right there, these POSs will suffer the retribution of their lies !! Might not happen now, maybe not that persons, but god will get them or a loved one etc

I am very happy to see that there are so many believers posting here - I for one am encouraged by your words and your perspectives. I am the director of security for a large church in the metro area (volunteer) in addition to my "day job" and this topic has come up quite a bit on our team.

We are called to submit to a point - but we are also called to be prepared. We have security in our houses of worship because Satan prowls around like a lion looking for someone to devour. Does anybody doubt that Satan has done just that time and time again? We are called to defend the flock - to protect those who are not capable of protecting themselves.

We are to ensure that our government does not trample on our freedom - losing the 2nd Amendment would be the gateway to losing the rest of our freedom - and this would include our freedom to worship our creator and our Lord and King Jesus Christ.

I have struggled with this myself - after prayer and consideration I have been led to the calmness of knowing that God is in control. His ways are higher ways, but He assures us that He will protect us. As bad as our nation is, we still are a nation that exports Christ's love to the world. Our people in our churches spread the Word of God, spread love, feed the homeless, care for the sick and needy, and above all, try to bring salvation to others.

We must defend that capability with all of our ability. The Lord will provide! God takes the worst sinners (I am one) and gives us His Spirit and His Courage to do His Will

GOD BLESS YOU BROTHERS!

I will admit I have not read all the posts, but I will at some point.

Peter cut off the Centurions ear and was not rebuked for the action, but for the timing. The Bible is clear that murder is sin, but killing a person is not always murder. While the 6th Commandment prohibits murder, killing and death are endorsed when it is carried out in concert with the rule of law as penalty or defense.

In Genesis 4, we have Cain murdering Able due to the evil in his heart, not because there was a murderous object bringing him to murder. When we go to Matthew 5:38-39 (Sermon on the Mount) which is often used to assert Christ was a passivist, it is clear that Christ was clearing up confusion about personal vengance versus conduct of a civil government. Exodus 20-22 ascribed punishments, to be enforced by the civil government, for crimes against persons and property, but still did not allow vengence. In Exodus 22:2-3, it is clear that self-defense is not sin.

Biblical principles are clear that SELF GOVERNANCE of our thoughts, actions and words is God's best plan. When man pridefully turns from God, self-control becomes impossible and in those cases, PUNISHMENT (not control) by the Civil government is required. Never did God approve CONTROL of persons by other persons nor a Government...PERIOD!

Ezekiel 18:20 refutes ALL of the gun control measures brought forth. "The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself." Person and implements are not to be controlled by Government, Government was only meant to punish those who are evil and do evil. To take tools from men (control) who are not evil to keep them from the hands of those who are evil is in direct conflict with Biblical principles.

Here is where non-Christians will balk, but it is clear that the framing of America, even by those who were professed athiests, was based on Biblical principles. Self-Control is first, corporal punishment for lack of self-control is to be carried out on those who do evil by the civil government. If Christ is not our King, a dictator shall rule over the land...that is where we are. As a Christian, I know who wins in the end, and it is not the liberals. I also know as a Christian that I will be persecuted, but the suffering on this earth is nothing compared to hell. Most of my friends are not Christians, I desire to talk to them about Christ, they know my beleifs. BUT, Christ NEVER taught hate for people. We are to hate the sin, not the person.

All that said, the struggle is real and this path we are on will lead to prohibitions against practicing our faith, that is clear as well. As a Christian who desires for the return of Christ, will promoting the bills bring his return sooner? Will fighting these bills dealy his return? The answer to both is a resounding NO. The time of his return is known only to God and we can not dealy or hasten it individually. I beleive I am instructed to fight oppression and control at every turn. However, the taking of life to that end, unless I, or other innocent life is attacked, is not within my rights as a Christian.