Printable View
A big thank you to Mathew and everyone else who planned and ran a super fun match. I think this is the first time that I've ever been satisfied with a sufficiently high round count!
One quick suggestion - what do you think of increasing the number of squads? Even after two of our shooters were DQ'd, we still shot until 3 pm. Another squad or two, and our time on the range would have dropped dramatically.
How about raising the fee to $50 and handing out $30 to the people left at the end of tear down.... And I think Matt stayed longer to parse through the barrels and lats.
I don't know where the time goes. Our group didn't seem to have that much down time. Taping up didn't seem to take that long. There wasn't much time spent waiting for a group to get off a stage. The stages seemed to have efficient design. Did we start shooting really late?
Did we have three or four groups? I guess the first measure is how long stages sit with out anyone on them?
The only comment on stage design was the Illuminati. Odd to start out and have to jump back 10 feet to the shooting area. The timer had to stand behind the shooter to beep them and then jump back to get out of the way. The other thing on that stage was the three long steel shots. It seems the most efficient way to run the stage from a point standing was to just shoot three rounds down range and take the misses. Some one can explain to me the math on that.
Does there have to be a mix of paper and steel on a stage? If not, for the longer shoots maybe set up steel and run a VTAC wall. Support will help with shot percents and keep the times down, and force some improvised shooting positions. I'd help out constructing one.
I believe we have 2 of those walls in the corral at CRC. For certain, we have one in the open area between the furthest east conex boxes.
I enjoyed the smaller steel this time, though I completely lost all hope of achieving a winning time due to that stage. That one taught a lesson.
There was a particularly accurate shooter on my squad who was able to smash that stage and the other steel stage with a 16” 9mm carbine. I’m guessing 10% of his overall time was waiting for the round to actually make it to the steel. Inspiring to watch.
This match had the most entertaining stage design yet, IMO.
Im anxious to see the scores for this one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Enjoy...
https://practiscore.com/results/new/58196
They were up later Saturday night. Thanks to who ever (Matt?) that got them up so fast.
So what does one have to do to DQ on 2 Gun’s?
Time-wise, there were several things that worked against us. Bit of a late start due to sign up and setup issues. Running three squads instead of four, and tear down was single threaded due to single truck & trailer in action. I hope to have a 2nd trailer available next match, and will have more signup help in future. I'd also like to have a few volunteers who can "own" stage setup. That is, we'll drop off props and stage diagram and they and their team will handle building it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
I liked Illuminati and the short uprange run, it provided a challenge in rifle handling but I didn't feel was excessive or ridiculous. It's not necessary for the RO to hover over the shooter at start. Stand a few steps back, then retreat with shooter.
This ^^^. Although some folks were able to do better then others by blowing off the steel, the top scorers for the stage hit all the steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by rustycrusty
180 violations caught some shooters on Saturday. See "Carbine Rules" posted here:Quote:
Originally Posted by esaabye
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/157644-...=1#post2123390
Matthew
Back flipQuote:
Originally Posted by esaabye
I disagree. Add challenge in rifle handling in shooting positions. Why not have a barrel start and the shooter move forward the same distance? You have backward movement over a low trip hazard like the 2x2 wood and the timer and shooter both moving backwards. Frankly, I think the rules are too loose. I don't think there should be any rearward movement and I think the design rule should be 2x45-60degrees, as in targets are on in a cone 45-60degrees either side of downrange. The 180 is like a firing line, as long as everyone is in line with the shooter. Placement of targets near the 180 leads to some stages that seem odd. There should be a bias for left to right movement if it is perpendicular to the end berm. All I'm saying is bake more safety into the stage so you take less chance to screw up from the shooter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver_AR
I liked the smaller IPSC targets. That was a cool addition.
I have been designing and running stages and matches at the National level for a long time, and Matt has been doing this a long time too. When you put training wheels on, people will lean on them and ultimately be LESS safe and less capable. This has been proven time and time again.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
That said, feel free to offer Matt a stage design and set it up at the next match. The more help given, in this volunteer sport, the less hassle it is for Matt (or any MD) to run the matches. We will have a new trailer soon. Learning to run the tablet is a big help as is set-up and tear down. We offer a small incentive to help set-up, but we won't ever be paying folks $30 to tear down. You enjoy the matches, help with running them and encourage your squad mates to do the same.
Thanks! Don’t know how I missed them.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please understand that Matthew had to run last Saturday's match without the help of some of the regulars. I assure you that he appreciates all the input he can get from the shooters but, more importantly, he appreciates your direct help even more.
I speak from experience when I say that designing stages that are both challenging as well as well as fun, is no easy task. Your stage design ideas are always welcome; you can send them in via email. Though, it important to add that one must not to be dissapointed if the stage you submited has to be tweaked to comply with the rules of the game.
Let me repeat what Mark P. said in a previous post: this is a volunteer sport. It takes a village a to run these events effectively; and we count on your help to do so.
Lastly, if there is any doubt about how your match fee is being used, let me emphasise that NOBODY here is making a cent out of running these matches. 100% of the proceeds of ALL events that take place at CRC are paid out to the range for hosting us or are used to buy targets, props, paint or equipment (like the 2nd trailer that we are looking to purchase).
I wasn't implying anything about the money outside of trying to get people to stick around- and I understand that the longer the day goes on, the more people have other obligations. I didn't expect it to last as long as it did. 7-8 hours at the range for 3 minutes of shooting starts to stretch the value proposition- and I'm not discounting the value of the banter. ;) . Often times when matches are slow you can see where the issues are, that is what most surprised me, was that there didn't seem to be anything amiss.
Is there a design rule that there has to be some paper on steel-ish stage like we do at 200?
One of the reasons for the close paper on the 200 is so that newer shooters will be able to gain some points. The hope is that, as the general group learns the game, learns their holds and develops skill, the difficulty of the 200 yard stage can increase some. The biggest complaints I have heard about the 200 yard stages are that they are too hard, and that people can not hit the 200 yard targets. Trust me when I say I could design a 10 round stage with steel at 200 that maybe only the top 5 or 6 people in Saturday's match would not have zero'd. So fun for 5, but not fun for 35. Patience...we will get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
Thanks to all you that take the leadership on this, it is greatly appreciated. My son has a blast on it and he finished in the top 25% this last match.
I know what you mean about the 100+ yard shots. That's why I thought the VTAC walls to give support, but force some positions might be good. Not saying we should try to get people taking canted shots at 200 yards . ;)
One rule that I think we do need to add is no more short-shorts, for Brits- or really anyone, especially if fluorescent colors.
Canted shots is certainly a skill worth testing, with enough notice and improvement, we might get there. :) In most cases, you can go prone too, so part of that is skill, part of that is experience to know when you need support, and get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
As for the shorts...not going there. )
I feel cheated... Even though I was not there to witness it, this is no less than the third time I have heard about the shorts. Somebody must have lost a bet... :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
I feel your pain. When lunch time comes around and my stomach starts rumbling, the fun-factor disappears.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
I think short shorts should be mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
And tube socks. Nothing goes with the short shorts like a pair of knee high tube socks.Quote:
Originally Posted by boxy
This just became
https://i.imgur.com/v6sCGiB.jpg
Fear not chaps, it was just a one off on one stage for a laugh (though I do have non-neon ones... XD ).Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
I will point out there is a fine heritage of men with short-shorts and guns :)
Rhodesia scouts
UDT Dive shorts of the Seals (Seals)
Ranger Panties
$20 for Ranger Panties!?!?!?! I will just go Commando for free ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by liftmorebitchless
I will pay for you NOT to go commando [facepalm]Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfuego
Hey guys, it is supposed to be 95 F on Saturday in Byers. I was wondering what your thoughts are regarding establishing the maximum number of squads in order to keep the match moving quickly. I realize the limiting factor is going to be the number of available ROs.
Do tell. What is you idea/suggestion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brass
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brass
One entry per person to start (I was an ass and shot twice last time and saw the time it added, never again). I'm not sure how having a certain number of squads would speed anything up, last match a squad was still shooting when we finished our last stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by cysoto
Paste fast if you want to speed the match up, I guess.
And start hydrating today, if you wait until the night before, it's already too late.
EDIT: Seems I'm wrong, after some napkin math. Maybe more, smaller squads would speed things up.
Last Aurora pistol match the squad I was in ran into the squad in front of us twice, we waited 15-20 minutes the first time I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brass
The difference always seems to be people taping and resetting versus standing around and chatting. The squad with more people up and ready to tape/reset know the running order is quicker.
Squads of 8 to 10 has been proven, time and time again, to be the fastest time per shooter when stage reset is required. If everyone works, 6-8 is the ticket, but no way to make sure all shooters will work quickly all the time.
How about finding out how many ROs can commit ahead of time and limiting registration to 8 people per squad? With on-line registration, it may be possible.
Yea, July in eastern Colorado! 95 degree temps will likely be its own correcting issue on shooter turn out.
Current plan is five stages but will reduce round count and distance (a bit) to reduce stage reset time. If we can get enough RO's we'll have five squads, probably around 8 shooters per squad based on past turn out. If we can't get enough RO's I'll need to drop a squad and stage.
Matthew
The early registration page is now active.
LINK FOR EARLY SIGN UP: https://practiscore.com/crc-action-r...-2018/register
We hope to see you all there!
We now have a 2nd trailer at CRC for schlepping props! If you have truck/SUV with 2" ball, it will greatly help setup and teardown.
Fun times today at the range. Was it hot? You betcha!! That did not keep us from having a great time.
Thanks to all for all the help with set-up, tear-down and, above all, for all the great ideas about ways in which we can keep improving this event!
Here is the link to results:
https://practiscore.com/results/html...9-9e9d2b5e63e8
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Lots of fun. Really starting to appreciate the need for speed for points and HF. Set-up and tear down were all faster. Tom and I spent a lot of time putting one stage up. It is interesting how paper plan has to be tweaked for reality. And someone always bitches in the end ;) .
I wouldn't mind trying to design a stage. What is the best resource for the rules on stage design, versus reverse engineering from experience? The 2x2 walls are so much easier to work with, and I have some ideas on further light weighting. Maybe for the next one I could set up an 'experimental' bay to see how they might work?
Anyone else go for the face on the knife target?
Impressive to have 46 shooters today. Well done folks.
As for stage design, the best bet is to just design one and send it to Matt or me along with your "theory" on what you are trying to test or do with the stage. Fresh ideas are good and sometimes get hampered if bogged down in the rules, so just let us tweak as needed afterwards.
Steel should really be at 55 yards for moving targets and 100 yards for static targets. Paper can be 1 to 200 yards, but think about reset time walking down to paper at 200. That said, you can do 3 or 4 arrays at 200 and then shoot that number of shooters before walking down and scoring.
One of the guys in our squad decided against stabbing and instead beheaded the target. [emoji43]Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
No doubt that stage design and building is always challenging. There is only one way to get better at this and that is to just do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
Tom has a lot of experience doing both and he is great to work with. I have designed stages, given them to Tom and let him interpret the design by adding his own flair to it. I have yet to be disappointed by his execution. He always manages to take an idea and elevate the fun factor by quite a few notches.
As Mark said, start putting ideas on paper and share them with others. Be receptive to criticism and never, never, never fall in love with your own vision of the stage. It's humbling to watch another person dissect your idea and point out details that had not occurred to you.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by cysoto
The stage that I helped Tom set-up had a lot of port shooting so placing the targets and the barrels to make sure that they were visible from certain ports and not others made for a lot of iterative changes to the positioning. And then when you move a barrier or a target, checking everything over again. The design was great.
Josh and Lauren were interesting to watch on our squad, and they didn't do stages the same way sometimes. The were a great help keeping us on track and really running our squad. One big thing I picked up from them was you have to shoot from inside the fault line, you don't have to stay inside it to move.
One question did come up on the 100 yard berm, There was a wall just outside the fault-line. Could that have been used as support (loose term considering the walls)? If I understood Josh, he said that standard USPSA rules would say "No", but we aren't "USPSA". I'm on my second iteration of 3-D printed barrier stops for my JP fore-end. I'm itching to use them at some point!
The rule of thumb is that if a wall defines the edge of the shooting area, it can be contacted while shooting. If the wall is beyond the edge of the shooting area, then it would be a penalty to contact it while firing a shot. Granted we are not using USPSA rules, but they are still the baseline that we default to for anything not defined in the stage brief or the ruleset.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
The rules state: Rangemaster has the final authority on all matters. In cases where the rules are silent, the principles of USPSA rules may be applied by the Rangemaster.
The best thing to do is to ask the MD/RM. If that is not expedient, then default to USPSA rules. Especially first squads, on things like that, it is perfectly okay to write it on the stage brief to make sure it gets done the same on other squads. I know that at the test match, we had a few squads do things that would not have been allowed (not safety issues) that gave them a big advantage. It is a local match, so not a big deal, except we do want to keep it so that everyone has the same stage to shoot. OTOH, there certainly are things that folks will do in competition that another person did not think about...that is not a reason to make it forbidden.