Mysterious Utility Box Shows Up In Resident?s Yard

I was explaining this thread to some folks from Louisiana at dinner last night.
Their first question was why don't the providers just mount the antenna's (or is it antennae?) on the power poles.
Well, we just spent millions to put the power lines underground.
Now, we can plant a forest of poles for the antenna's.
Irony?

Mrs bo knock that shit down with brush hog or harrow.

If you're unarmed, you are a victim.

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Originally Posted by Grant H.

Except at 10-20x the frequency and significantly higher power. All without the added benefit of the shielding that exists in your microwave oven.

Microwave ovens run at 2.4GHz, at relatively low power in a shielded box. This frequency is why 2Ghz wifi is/was affected negatively by running the microwave.

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People need to be clear when they talk about lower or higher power. The CNET article lost me when it said, "Bigger wavelengths with lower frequency are less powerful, while smaller wavelengths at higher frequencies are more powerful." WRONG. Frequency does not imply power. A LOT of the transmitters we use today are high frequency at lower power which is why they can ccommunicate a lot of data very fast but can't go very far without being lost in the RF noise unless you use a focused receiver and amplify the signal. In fact, Bluetooth works at 2.4 GHz but at 100 mW (0.1 W or about 1/12000 of the power of most microwave ovens).

Microwave ovens are anything BUT relatively low power unless you're comparing that microwave to a high power radar like we use for missile warning. Your 2.4 GHz wifi should NOT be affected by the microwave oven except in very close proximity due to the shielding. If it is, you have a problem with your microwave oven. The other thing that happens with microwave ovens is that the power is pulsed for greater effect whereas this RF energy is more continuous like sunshine.

I haven't looked up the specifications for 5G towers but the 500 ft specification leads me to believe they are very low power. At these low powers, the RF can't penetrate your skin and is lower in energy density than a sunny day (and maybe even an overcast day) in Colorado. At 60 GHz, the RF is reflected by water -- or anything with a significant amount of water in it. UV is ionizing radiation and you get more of it by mowing your lawn than you get from 4G and probably 5G continuous broadcast. Stand next to a cell tower -- do you even feel warm?

If you're worried about brain cancer, you can probably help yourself by wearing earbuds so your ear canal doesn't channel the energy (sort of like a feed horn in reverse). Of course if you use Bluetooth earbuds, you're actually putting a 2.4 GHz transmitter directly in your ear canal ...

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

People need to be clear when they talk about lower or higher power. The CNET article lost me when it said, "Bigger wavelengths with lower frequency are less powerful, while smaller wavelengths at higher frequencies are more powerful." WRONG. Frequency does not imply power. A LOT of the transmitters we use today are high frequency at lower power which is why they can ccommunicate a lot of data very fast but can't go very far without being lost in the RF noise unless you use a focused receiver and amplify the signal. In fact, Bluetooth works at 2.4 GHz but at 100 mW (0.1 W or about 1/12000 of the power of most microwave ovens).

Microwave ovens are anything BUT relatively low power unless you're comparing that microwave to a high power radar like we use for missile warning. Your 2.4 GHz wifi should NOT be affected by the microwave oven except in very close proximity due to the shielding. If it is, you have a problem with your microwave oven. The other thing that happens with microwave ovens is that the power is pulsed for greater effect whereas this RF energy is more continuous like sunshine.

I haven't looked up the specifications for 5G towers but the 500 ft specification leads me to believe they are very low power. At these low powers, the RF can't penetrate your skin and is lower in energy density than a sunny day (and maybe even an overcast day) in Colorado. At 60 GHz, the RF is reflected by water -- or anything with a significant amount of water in it. UV is ionizing radiation and you get more of it by mowing your lawn than you get from 4G and probably 5G continuous broadcast. Stand next to a cell tower -- do you even feel warm?

If you're worried about brain cancer, you can probably help yourself by wearing earbuds so your ear canal doesn't channel the energy (sort of like a feed horn in reverse). Of course if you use Bluetooth earbuds, you're actually putting a 2.4 GHz transmitter directly in your ear canal ...

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"...less powerful" and "...more powerful" is misleading language. I believe the author was speaking in terms of "energy"

https://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/scienc...spectrum1.html
https://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/Images...are_level1.jpg

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The wavelengths of ultraviolet, X-ray, and gamma-ray regions of the EM spectrum are very small. Instead of using wavelengths, astronomers that study these portions of the EM spectrum usually refer to these photons by their energies, measured in electron volts (eV). Ultraviolet radiation falls in the range from a few electron volts to about 100 eV. X-ray photons have energies in the range 100 eV to 100,000 eV (or 100 keV). Gamma-rays then are all the photons with energies greater than 100 keV.

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48616174
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp...graphic-nc.png

More unbiased info than even I care to read, this doesn't have an agenda:

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1503/1503.05944.pdf

The basic conclusion is the safety of 5ghz-100ghz + transmissions is better measured by temperature increases, not electron-volt or other somewhat arbitrary math. It's non ionizing so the risk is from heat, which may or may not cause oxidative stresses in cells.

But yeah, if you're not feeling warm, it's probably safe.

Side note: There's one location on the western slope that the tower density is so $#$%ing high and the output is so $#$%ing high that I've heard they only let technicians work for very limited windows - maybe as low as 10 minutes. I haven't confirmed, but there are occupational limits they have to follow so it makes sense.

That would be, for the record, because it would heat you up too much. Much like tweety bird flying right in front of a focused radar array.

As a side note, I see little value in MM-wave wireless. For those that aren't aware, you need VERY good LOS. And honestly, 90% of phone consumers aren't ever even using 4G bandwidth to its full potential - which doesn't require perfect LOS.

It's really, to me, a fancy new statistic that gets them to sell new cell phones and equipment and all the associated bullshit, without having any real societal benefit outside of rural areas that have no dedicated internet options besides satellite. And those are the last ones, if ever, that will get 5G deployments anyway.

That said, if a tellco wants to pay me for a 5G deployment, giggity giggity

(ETA: The LOS thing is the primary reason you need so many towers. It can't even go through a single layer of drywall all that well - if it is the 60GHz MM wave variant)

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

People need to be clear when they talk about lower or higher power. The CNET article lost me when it said, "Bigger wavelengths with lower frequency are less powerful, while smaller wavelengths at higher frequencies are more powerful." WRONG. Frequency does not imply power. A LOT of the transmitters we use today are high frequency at lower power which is why they can ccommunicate a lot of data very fast but can't go very far without being lost in the RF noise unless you use a focused receiver and amplify the signal. In fact, Bluetooth works at 2.4 GHz but at 100 mW (0.1 W or about 1/12000 of the power of most microwave ovens).

Microwave ovens are anything BUT relatively low power unless you're comparing that microwave to a high power radar like we use for missile warning. Your 2.4 GHz wifi should NOT be affected by the microwave oven except in very close proximity due to the shielding. If it is, you have a problem with your microwave oven. The other thing that happens with microwave ovens is that the power is pulsed for greater effect whereas this RF energy is more continuous like sunshine.

I haven't looked up the specifications for 5G towers but the 500 ft specification leads me to believe they are very low power. At these low powers, the RF can't penetrate your skin and is lower in energy density than a sunny day (and maybe even an overcast day) in Colorado. At 60 GHz, the RF is reflected by water -- or anything with a significant amount of water in it. UV is ionizing radiation and you get more of it by mowing your lawn than you get from 4G and probably 5G continuous broadcast. Stand next to a cell tower -- do you even feel warm?

If you're worried about brain cancer, you can probably help yourself by wearing earbuds so your ear canal doesn't channel the energy (sort of like a feed horn in reverse). Of course if you use Bluetooth earbuds, you're actually putting a 2.4 GHz transmitter directly in your ear canal ...

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I'm well aware that power is different than frequency.

Your 1200w microwave does NOT radiate 1200w at 2.4GHZ... Even if they did, which they don't, outside the shielding, and outside of the focal point of microwave, the levels are exceptionally low. This shielding and directional transmission are both things that are specifically missing with 5G AP's on towers...

Yes, Bluetooth is 100mW which is why it cuts out at ~20' and really doesn't like obstructions...

58dBm EIRP is a hell of a lot more than 100mW... That's the power levels that have been used to achieve satisfactory results in 5G testing up to 200m in non-line of sight applications.

The major points for tower proximity are:
- Non-line of sight signal at high frequency to allow for fast data transfer. Once you add stuff in the way (buildings, trees, cars, people, etc) signal levels drop off pretty dramatically.

- Number of subscribers/tower in order to provide the speeds they are planning to offer. Each tower will only be able to provide Xgbps and that gets cut by the overhead required for the mesh network architecture, and then the remaining bandwidth gets divided by the number of users connected (with dynamic load balancing based on usage - ie dude looking at texts takes less bandwidth than the dude streaming netflix).

As for standing next to a cell tower??? LOL... I've climbed them. Repeatedly.

There is a reason that you have to turn the transmitters off before you can safely climb them. And now the 5G transmitters will be at ~30' instead of 50-100' (normally)...

For the discussion on LOS:
http://youtu.be/OidnBOcXvic

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Originally Posted by Gman

For the discussion on LOS:
http://youtu.be/OidnBOcXvic

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This vid is good, but the next one that followed was even better.

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Originally Posted by ben4372

This vid is good, but the next one that followed was even better.

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Peppa Pig?
I shouldn't leave my Google account permanently logged in....