Open Discussion of all Things Electric Vehicle (aka EV) for Those Pro or Con, BE RESPECTFUL!

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Originally Posted by Jer

Out of curiosity, are you talking new? If someone is buying a new car and looking for advice I'm not your guy because that deprecation hit you take is just brutal on ANY brand. If you're buying a new car (given the aforementioned rate of depreciation) you have FAR bigger financial concerns than annual fuel bill versus electricity bill.

That said, if you find a good deal on used one you can find a great car for a fraction of what they cost new. In our case, I've actually bought/sold seven of them used now. Not only do we not lose money but we actually make a few bucks. I realize that not everybody will want to go through this so I'm not suggesting it's for everyone.

I tell people that they can conservatively estimate paying 1/10th in electricity than they do gas to cover the same miles. That delta is even greater now that gas prices are crazy but it's a nice round number that makes mental estimations easy. We save right around $4k per year, per vehicle. I spread sheeted this out years ago when gas prices were $2.18/gal so you can only imagine how much we save now that that price has blown up. We also drive less than average so that savings would also go up relative how many miles you put on your vehicle. Bonus, you never ride that fuel price roller coaster again.

Naturally, whatever you determine to spend on the front end to acquire said vehicle will impact that "savings" figure but it's not nothing. Sock that money away for a "rainy day" and you can have a nice repair account built up by the time the 8-year battery pack and drive motor warranty expires should you need to replace them.

I wouldn't suggest buying an EV strictly for the gas/oil savings but... it's another entry in the "for" column for sure.

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I will never buy a used EV, not when most are up in the mid 75-80K mileage wise, with cost of a replacement battery not worth opening my wallet for. The 2nd reason for not owning 1, leg room. Until a ev mfg makes a very friendly, ADA leg room unit, it can sit on the showroom.
3rd . Those vehicles work for a family of 2, who travel moderately light. For us a mini van with cargo topper is still not enough room, when we rarely return home empty handed.



I'll wait till i'm too old to do my own services & repairs on what we drive, now.

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Originally Posted by Jer

Heat mitigation is a much larger concern with an ICE making lots of power. An ICE will put approximately 30% of it's potential energy into forward momentum with much of the balance being lost to heat as well as other factors. Teslas in particular put more like 90% or more of their energy into forward momentum. This means that next to zero is lost to heat so even if you double a number that is nearly zero... you probably get the point.

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True, but ICE vehicles are built with larger cooling systems in place since they so generate much more heat. But at 130mph, there's a metric fuckton of air moving through the radiator on my F150, and around the trans/diffs/etc.
Now I've never actually inspected a tesla or anything, but I would assume that it's a relatively flat bottom, so not much moving around down there, and has a small radiator stuffed somewhere to account for cooling the battery and whatever control systems are in there. I would ASSUME that the discharge rate needed to propel the vehicle would heat the pack up a bit. Same for running back to back launches in Ludacris mode

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Originally Posted by Gman

How much of the price of fuel is taxes? Quite a bit. They'll be coming for the EVs "not paying their fair share" soon enough.

I 'hear you' about the front of the new Teslas. The Model 3 just looks like it wasn't finished.

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Read an article today that Texas Republicans are looking to do just that.


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Originally Posted by Jer

The way that was presented to you has a bit of a negative slant. For a period, Tesla made only one larger pack. To keep the production lines flowing they software locked the maximum capacity of these packs for cars that were sold for less. During periods of hurricanes, wildfires and other natural disasters Tesla not only unlocked all of these software locks w/o anyone asking but they often make Superchargers free too. Crazy how some media outlets spin this to a negative though. In the instance where packs are software locked they still offer the same range the customer paid for but they also get lots of performance benefits to charge rates, charge curves, acceleration, long term degradation and all sorts of things. In short, if you can choose it, you want a larger pack that is software locked. This is preferable in just about every metric. Tesla has made many different size packs over the years and some have been used in different cars for different reasons and many have different chemistry.

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A lot of gas stations only have two tanks - 85 and 91. Yet they still have 85, 87, and 91 at the pump.

They simply pump 91 when someone selects 87.

People who complain about bigger packs being installed (and then simply software limited) are a lot like people who would complain about getting 91 when they selected 87. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Jer

There are negatives to this too that I can elaborate on once I have more time so it's not all a bowl full of cherries.

More later...

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Some now such as servicing... but when EV becomes more common and right to repair is implemented fully, after market parts and 3rd party independent service centers will come and replace independent ICE shops and there will not be a need for the ICE dealer style networks and con artists.

Dealers can suck it.

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Originally Posted by Jer

I assume you mean a P100D in which case they top out at 155mph. Having been that speed & well beyond multiple times in my life I can tell you that I have zero desire to come even close to that anymore so I really couldn't care any less than I do about a vehicle's terminal velocity as long as it's in the triple digits. 155mph more than meets that criteria for me.

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The P100D I was riding in (was on the A98 before there were limits put on) hit the top speed at 200kmh. It did not go anywhere near 250kmh.

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Originally Posted by FoxtArt

People who complain about bigger packs being installed (and then simply software limited) are a lot like people who would complain about getting 91 when they selected 87. Lol.

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Not really. If you paid for 87 octane but we?re given 91 then you reap whatever benefits come with the higher octane.

A better analogy would be buying a truck with a 36 gallon fuel tank but it has a baffle installed so it only holds 28 gallons and reduces the range of the vehicle.

I am assuming if someone had an electric vehicle capable of more range that was software limited that there is some way to jailbreak or hack it to unlock the additional battery potential?

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Originally Posted by ray1970

Not really. If you paid for 87 octane but we?re given 91 then you reap whatever benefits come with the higher octane.

A better analogy would be buying a truck with a 36 gallon fuel tank but it has a baffle installed so it only holds 28 gallons and reduces the range of the vehicle.

I am assuming if someone had an electric vehicle capable of more range that was software limited that there is some way to jailbreak or hack it to unlock the additional battery potential?

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As I mentioned before. Under or overcharging a lithium battery degrades. The software will likely limit charge / discharge to somewhere around 3.6v to 4.0v. lithium ion chemistry generally allows up to 4.3v in a cell. Or approximately 10% more charge. But cycle life goes down.

So yes the cars are likely running around with “more range” in the batteries. And yes they can likely be jail broken. But the cost will be battery life. It is the same with pulling more current (power) out of the batteries. You affect life span of the battery pack with rapid discharges (and rapid charges).

Your best method is to stay between 3.8v and 4.0v and charge as slowly as you can to maximize battery lifespan.

If I were a marketing person and could have my way for and EV (which I am not and cannot respectively) what I would request.

An EV pickup similar to the Rivan or F150 Lighting but with the addition of a propane powered generator. Think 5-7kw?

That way when the truck is needed for long distance or out in the mountains or away from power the generator would be run to recharge batteries and the generator could be run while driving long distances to keep the batteries charged.

But most of the time the truck would be a plug in EV.

Yes it is a hybrid of sorts, but one where the car is still EV and the "hybrid" is only used when needed to charge batteries. It would have to be engaged by the driver.

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Originally Posted by Jer

Tesla's new Model S has over 400 miles of range on a single charge and can replace 80% of that range in like 10-15 minutes.

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Source please for the 80% of 400 mile range in 10-15 minutes. I can't find that, even looking at Tesla's information. Maybe 50% of range in 15 minutes using a Supercharger.

New Model S starts at $94,990. Sedans don't work for us. Really expensive sedans really don't work for us.