http://i.imgur.com/BpvaB.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by stevelkinevil
Printable View
http://i.imgur.com/BpvaB.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by stevelkinevil
I like a good clean debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by theGinsue
So far, we've kept it clean, free of name calling and such. Nothing to exhibit hate or anything. I, for one, don't feel the need to bash anyone's head in.
If people get tired of seeing it, don't open it. IMHO.
This thread ripe to be whored, now.
Thomas, very good post. I agree with pretty much everything that you said. Without knowing the full circumstances of the case I make myself to comment only think about what I would potentially do in the event I were in the same circumstances that have been provided for by the media and by this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleDave
That was yesterday... You can have the sloppy seconds though. [ROFL2]
I had to address this because this is, how do they say, hitting the nail on the head. Kev will probably agree with me here, as would any of our LEOs, that while society and precedence can influence LEO behavior- not to mention policy instituted by higher ranking administration- the line between non-cooperation and standing up for your rights has been blurred quite a bit over the years. I've seen it, experienced it, and heard about it. It's very sad, and in a case like this- police trying to locate a fleeing suspect- I fear that the doors open for abusive tactics to be employed when tensions are running high. I would hope that we as a society would wake the hell up and see these transgressions and aid in "pumping the brakes" so that cops don't get themselves in trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by theGinsue
Moreover, on the flip side, we do not want to "pussify" our LEOs by putting a bunch of barriers in the way so that they question their actions in a hostile situation. As the Army taught me, hesitation can kill you, but that correlates quite differently to civilian law enforcement. I guess my point is that it's become so commonplace that in a high stress situation, like the one in this case, many don't stop and think if their rights are being violated and simply comply with toeing the line of constitutional rights tactics. I'm not saying the PD blatantly violated rights, they were under a lot of stress and on edge because of the circumstances and maybe used a little too aggressive options in trying to locate the suspect. Hopefully in the future, if, as Ginsue put it best, they didn't have a clear sight or exact location of the suspect, they would recognize a lack of need for use of such tactics. Of course there probably isn't going to be much backlash so we can all chalk this one up to setting a new precedence. [Bang]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
This is one of those things that people need to be careful with though...
The place to "fight this battle" isn't on the side of the road or during a situation. The place is in court. Just like a traffic ticket.. If you're getting a ticket you're getting a ticket. Arguing with the cop on the side of the road won't change that. You're gonna have to do it in court.
To make your life and the lives of the police you're dealing with easier... Fight the battle in court. Court is safe. No one is going to shoot you in court... No one is going to throw you on the ground in court...
Telling the cop to piss off (in a sence) during a high stress situation isn't going to go well for either person involved. Go with the flow, fight it out in court.
WHOA, really? So it actually DID happen to someone exercising their Constitutional rights? Now this is getting interesting...Quote:
Originally Posted by theGinsue
But this brings to the discussion now what's the difference between arguing with a cop and respectfully exercising your right to refuse consent to a warrantless search? Now I know you see what I'm getting at here, but if a cop is looking for a suspect we must stand by the motto of justice "innocent until PROVEN guilty" and the proof is in the pudding, they must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you're in the wrong. Simply saying (and I stress be respectful) "I refuse to give consent to any searches" is just you following the law and exercising your rights... what the LEO interprets that as is where we risk going into abuse of power or failure to do their job properly if it's construed as something it really isn't. Otherwise, they can feel free to move on and let me go about my business in peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0
Eh.. Depends on the situation.. Guns drawn, yelling "Get on the ground!"... I suggest you refrain from saying anything and get on the ground. That's just me though... I tend to do what ever the police ask me to do.. But, you all know what I do for work.. Granted, I did that even before I worked here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
I think there are few cops out there with the mindset of, "Let's go mess with people today." I think most of them are honest people and they're just doing their job. Choices have to be made and I'm sure most of them believe that, at the time, their choice is the right one. Mistakes happen though.
Just be glad this was a "harmless" mistake. When I say that I mean no one got hurt...
I advocate compliance with the lawful orders of peace officers, if for no other reason than there are laws against failure to comply. However, it irritates me that we as a society have allowed ourselves to be indoctrinated that the only time to question whether or not an order is lawful is after the fact (submit first, question in court). Of course, the reason we do this is because we KNOW that police officers are armed, and willing to escalate force to the point of compliance, being backed by force of law, so it makes good sense to "go with the flow" and sort things out later. I'm not sure I have a better solution, but the idea that just because someone is a police officer, they have a right to seize control of me at any time just irks me. And Ronin brings up a good point: Where does the line get drawn between asserting one's rights, and "resisting a police officer"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFOGGER
Foggy line for sure... I'm just glad I live in a place where I could even question it... Go to some other countries around the world... You don't even have the chance to question it before they shoot you in the face.
Here's my prediction: The bankrobber is going to get all evidence found in his car thrown out because it's fruit of the poisoned tree.
If they can’t find some other way to pin the robbery on him, he’ll walk.
Versus [assuming the presence of a GPS unit, which in my mind is a certainty] the police mixing in with the cars until via the GPS tracking information one car differentiated itself from the others. Now stop him (hopefully in a relatively safe area), get a warrant (now you have probable cause) and nail the bad guy.
All the while using less police officers, endangering fewer people and you don’t have to cuff innocent people in the process either.
Total win-win. I think someone got excited by the technology at hand (makes me think that this is the first time they had GPS data on a robbery) and jumped the gun, so to speak.
O2
I like that this point has been made, as I don't think it can be stressed enough.
Do not get into a confrontation with uniformed cops on the street. It will not go well for you.
As a non-uniformed LE, I follow that same rule. Yes, officer. No, officer. You do not have my consent officer. When you would like to see it, I can identify myself officer.
Save the civil rights fight for a safe place, like a courtroom or administrative hearing.
Sometimes it is better to be a live dog than a dead lion.
If you have the right of way, and clearly have the legal right to cross the street; to do so in front of a tractor trailer (to defend your rights) is not just wrong, but foolish.
Be safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
Great point. At the end of the day, that "tractor trailer" could be very damaging and I don't think it's worth it.
If a cop does something stupid that I don't agree with and I work with, I will tell him later in a safe place. Causing a fight in the middle of a call is also not the place...and if he doesn't change his ways, well he can give up his house and all his money in court because I'll still have mine.
Some folks get detained for a short time. The bad guy gets caught and everyone goes home safe to their families. Sounds to me like a win/win for all involved.
You know, my biggest issue with this whole thing is the picture on page 9 of this whole thread. I understand that cops have a tough job. Especially in A-town. BUT I just don't think I'd be really happy when I'm being pulled out of my truck facing a 12 gauge shottie knowing that my three year old is still in the vehicle. What would really piss me off is when fattie still has his shotgun pointed at me when I was walking towards them with my child in my arms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoWyo
At that point they didn't know who was and wasn't the bad guy... You point your gun at everyone. Kid in hand or not... You don't know if the bad guy jumped into a car that had a kid in it and now he's holding said kid as a hostage.
And as for calling him fattie... That's cute... Were you picked on as a child?
I find it funny that you have to find some possible way to call him a name of some sort. Like it's your only goal in life...
People that talk shit about another person's weight are funny... I mean, it's like making fun of someone with a medical issue... Yeah, I understand that some people are just fat and it's their own fault. But some people actually have medical issues that cause them to retain weight... I'm one of those people. Both my parents have thyroid problems that causes their body to retain weight. Diets helped them, both only slightly, and only for a limited amount of time before their body went back into retain mode...
I play hockey 2-3 times a week, play softball once a week, and I'm in the weight room 4 times a week before I start my shift at work. I eat less than most people I know. I also eat better than most people I know. Chemically I'm in perfect health. Low cholesteral. Blood sugar is fine. Everything with my blood checks out great. I still weigh 275ish pounds. Still have a gut. Still have the fat rolls in places.
People talk shit all the time... Then they see me play hockey or softball and go, "damn... Big man can run/skate."
How do you know the cop isn't the same way? I know at least 3 guys on my shift that look out of shape... Worse than me... They run the mile and a half in 14 minutes. They do over 50 push ups and sit ups in a minute.
Would you make fun of someone with a missing leg? Arm? Finger? How about someone with a mental handicap?
I guess the point of this whole post is, Fuck off, douche bag. Don't talk shit about people you know nothing about.
That is all. [Pepsi]for me, even though I dont drink it. [Beer] for all your beer drinkers. [Coffee]for all you under 21 folks. [Flower]for the "happy ones" (Ranger. Leader of the Pink Parade Party. ;))
LOL. Well at least you are taking the moral high ground.
I just don't understand why it's gotta be about his weight. So the guy is fat. Who cares? That doesn't mean anything. There must be something about yourself that bothers you that you feel the need to insult the man's weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoWyo
im not picking on the big kids but i do not understand fat cops?
What do you mean you don't understand fat cops?Quote:
Originally Posted by alxone
This is not meant in any negative way. Police work is actually fairly sedentary stuff I mean you spend the majority of your day sitting either in a car or at a desk if you dont take the time to work out or have a raging metabolism you are going to put on weight.
like how they have a job . i for one want police in my area to be able to catch the crooks . if you cant take a flight of stairs , hop a fence , or sprint 1/4 mile then no job .Quote:
Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0
ever seen a crack head run ? aint no heavy guys catching that !
Quote:
Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0
Nope. I'm quite secure in myself. As a matter of fact, I'm so secure that I don't even get butt hurt over stuff people post on the Internet.
while i can see your point , i still feel that cretin jobs like , LEO ,Military, Fire Fighters and paramedics should not have people that are out of shape . from the lowest person to the top personQuote:
Originally Posted by lifeon2
This is true... I work with this little Asian guy... He's in stupid good shape.. The bastard can eat anything he wants and never put on weight... One night he came back from McDonalds with a LARGE DOUBLE Quarter Pounder meal... When I went to lunch an hour later... He asked me to bring him back another one....Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeon2
I hate him for that...
Ain't no one catching a scared crack head...Quote:
Originally Posted by alxone
That's why there's physical tests in place during the hiring process...Quote:
Originally Posted by alxone
For Adams County there's a course you have to run..
200 foot sprint, 6' wall, 5' long jump, 3' high tunnel crawl, Serpentine through some cones, go through a window 3' off the ground, 4' chain link fence, two 3' wood fences, drag a 175 pound dummy 20' up a slight hill.
You have 1 minute 57 seconds to do it... I do it in the 1:15 to 1:23 range. 1:15 was my best, 1:23 my worst.
The course record is 57 seconds.
So, to your point, I'm "out of shape" and I can pass it with plenty of time to spare. But I also work my ass off to be able to do it.
damn i had no idea . how often do they retest ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0
They RETEST a lot... But current employees dont need to meet the standard... They just need to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by alxone
Trust me, there's more than a few people working here that bother me with their weight... And I'm not small..
ok so this thread has gotten down to fitness standards it should die now [Stick]
Ninja Whore Thread... [Flower]Quote:
Originally Posted by alxone
Word of warning, don't google image search ninja whore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Good thing my phone doesn't work good enough at work... I'm still stuck on Sasha Grey from the other thread. [ROFL1]
I effectively didn't make it into the site yesterday (not feeling well).
So, time for this thread to get locked, or keep it open?
Ninja, whooorrrree![Coffee]
Quote:
Originally Posted by theGinsue
In before lock.... [Coffee]
Hope you're feeling better...Quote:
Originally Posted by theGinsue
I think the ninja whoring bit just took it to a new level of interesting, but that's just me, my mind works like a teenager sometimes, I find ninjas to be about the coolest thing ever. Yes, even cooler than Batman. [Coffee]
I dunno, is there anything we haven't hit upon on this issue? Besides shotguns pointed at faces, and GPS-laden big brother stuff?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
Nah... We hit the Shotgun subject...
It's wrong! All wrong! [Bang]
Ooop... well then we've pretty much covered everything except for the conspiracy stuff (who's first?)... like it was all a big ploy to test the waters for the coming police state...Quote:
Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0
Bait set!