Originally Posted by
foxtrot
Your theological argument boils down to premeditated murder of the self, but the original language doesn't cast it that way. When you look into Retzach, like I said, it is also used to describe a lion waiting to ambush a deer. Retzach is not legally justified murder. And it was never, to my knowledge, used to describe suicide, for which they had another word. So while I respect your argument, it is mere argument; and like I said - nowhere in the bible does it say suicide is a mortal sin. by the logic applied, masterbating is equal to adultery with your neighbor because you're not with your spouse. Sorry - not - thelogical twisting to come up with "gotchas" works as well in religion as it does in government. E.g. we are prosecuting you as a drug dealer because you dispensed drugs to yourself. We are prosecuting for distribution of alcohol to a minor, because you were 16, and you clearly distributed it to yourself.
Also, the red herring is e.g. saying I am comparing human life to cannibalism or equating the two. The specific example I provided, animals are treated better than human. By your reasoning, that may make your acceptable position to be less than animals.
You illustrate my points rather well though. And no, I don't advocate for suicide. Your position is common, and say:
1) Someone is diagnosed with a class 4 astrocytoma in their brain. Incurable. No question.
2) In order to not burn in hell alongside the pedophiles, they can only do "pain management" until the bitter end of natural death - which is poorly managed, for the record.
3) If they intentionally take too much pain medication in the throes of the worst and end stages of the disease, they burn in hell alongside the pedophiles.
4) If they do something like get their affairs in order and eat a bullet, they burn in hell alongside the pedophiles; how dare they not have their family suffer alongside them until the bitter end.
Like I said - sure, you can argue theologically all you want, books if you want, construct arguments, go on and on, but the basis in this is not original; it is a creation of adherents. Other creations since have been abhorrent, but we don't act like they are "divine law".
You also claim to have greatly diminished respect for me simply because I do not agree with you that people who contemplate and conduct suicide are as evil as those who rape and molest children and subject to the same "mortal" punishment. Once again, you illustrate my point. If one of your children ever had suicidal idealization, would you want them to seek help ASAP without fear of social ramification, or do you want them to be terrified that dad would forever view them as something less, as someone who contemplates an unforgivable "mortal sin".
If I can't even argue that - 1) people shouldn't commit suicide but 2) it's their right to do so and it's not a "mortal sin" and 3) They should not feel ostracized for seeking help without falling in your and other's graces... shit Houston, we have a problem with our suicide epidemic and it isn't from people like me.
ETA) I'll throw a hiccup out for you too. U.S. airman gets shot down somewhere over arabia, gets taken hostage by Isis. Knows they will soon behead him on camera for political purpose against his country, and where his wife and children can see his death forever available on the internet.
Explain why he should not contemplate, or conduct, suicide, and why he should be condemned to hell if he does. You don't want him to, but by your theological position, the law is the law and he's no better than a kiddo raper in hell.
(Funny, you think the bible would have mentioned the mortal sin of it when it described soldiers doing the historical equivalent of the above situation.. hmmmm)
