F**K everyone that voted for ocare

nynco,

Your sentiment that "relying on charity does not work" as a comparison could be valid if today, we were not paying for BOTH methodologies-but I would still offer otherwise-a long healthy, wealthy life is utopial- not guaranteed. How did that work out for Steve Jobs?

BTW, and contrary to media portrayal- charitable work and donations on a year to year basis have never stopped increasing! Also, our local "real world" has birthed a much different level of those with a hand outward than it should. My King Soopers grocery line is irrefutable proof- the young couple(s) with mom and dad wearing $140+ jeans, $200+ sunglasses etc. and getting into a really nicely modded Tahoe with their cute kids after just spending their food assistance quite discreetly ahead of me speaks volumes. There was not a need. Someone else went hungry again as those dollars were misappropriated. I think the same thing every time I see some Environmentalist spouting about E85 and saving the earth while not giving a damn about higher corn costs literally killing those that can't afford a single ear a day elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by nynco

Also how is Obamacare a failure. It has not even come into play and you are acting like it is 10 years past. We shall see.

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Your claim that it has not even come into play shows that you are utterly uninformed of the many provisions of Obamacare and how they've played out since adoption.

The requirement of child-only plans to accept all applicants has resulted in the complete disappearance of child-only health insurance policies in seventeen states.

The IRS reports that only seven percent of the estimated 4 million small businesses have claimed the credit for offering health insurance to their employees - expanded coverage failure.

The high risk pools have only seen 13 percent of the estimated enrollees - another expanded coverage failure.

The government run long term care program established by the CLASS Act has already been halted because it could not prove actuarially sound.

And health insurance premiums have been rising since its adoption at a higher rate than before.

Employers are showing an increased tendency to expand the use of part time employees whose hours put them below the requirement to provide health insurance or pay penalty.

Government expenditures have been above the projections that the Obama administration used to try to sell the program to the public, so its been a worse effect on the deficit than promised.

Obamacare is a failure.

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Originally Posted by spqrzilla

Your claim that it has not even come into play shows that you are utterly uninformed of the many provisions of Obamacare and how they've played out since adoption.

The requirement of child-only plans to accept all applicants has resulted in the complete disappearance of child-only health insurance policies in seventeen states.

The IRS reports that only seven percent of the estimated 4 million small businesses have claimed the credit for offering health insurance to their employees - expanded coverage failure.

The high risk pools have only seen 13 percent of the estimated enrollees - another expanded coverage failure.

The government run long term care program established by the CLASS Act has already been halted because it could not prove actuarially sound.

And health insurance premiums have been rising since its adoption at a higher rate than before.

Employers are showing an increased tendency to expand the use of part time employees whose hours put them below the requirement to provide health insurance or pay penalty.

Government expenditures have been above the projections that the Obama administration used to try to sell the program to the public, so its been a worse effect on the deficit than promised.

Obamacare is a failure.

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Uh, you, Sir, are obviously racist.

Wow, ny-whatever- you have a very warped perception...where to begin....

First- why do you think that it is OK for the .gov to COMPELL the citizenry to provide for the welfare of the needy rather than rely on the compassion of the citizens themselves? That is completely whacked out my man. If the citizenry doesnt want to help, then that is their RIGHT, if they do want to help others they will. Period. Compelling a society to provide for those who do not provide for themselves is the worst sort of enabling and breeds EXACTLY what we are seeing now- a failure of society as a whole to be responsible.

The problem with welfare and socialist programs IS the government and bureaucratic mess that goes along with it. Have you paid attention to the real numbers coming out? $60K PER PERSON spent in the welfare system!!! Thats insane! $120K PER PERSON to keep the average prisoner confined, and this includes illegals which should be deported yet our system allows them to remain in our jails almost indefinitely at taxpayer expense!
Meanwhile, actual citizens that NEED help jump through hoops to get it.
Some charities, especially those as part of .gov sanctioned agencies such as United Way, are horrible, with reports of less that 3cents of each dollar contributed actually going to the intended recipients while the corporate officers of the "non-profit" organization take home million dollar salaries. However, others, such as the Shriners, Masons, most Churches, give every single dollar they get to the needy.
The best possible thing for this country is to completely dismantle all Federal socialist programs, including welfare, unemployment, social security, all forms of healthcare, funds for public schooling, etc. If a state or county wants to have a welfare program and can make it work, awesome, but I am sick of my tax dollars going to support some single mom in an inner city, or worse, some storm "victim" in Haiti or some other third-world nation, when it can be better used to encourage commerce, a strong military, etc.. All laws requiring insurance- be it workplace, life, etc. need to be removed. Insurance should have all governmental assistance removed, and should live or die on thier own merits.
There is NO good that can come of any Nationalized healthcare program, and the more intrusion that exists the worse we are going to suffer.

taxes are part of life buddy you want to live in a land without taxes... point to one that functionally works. Till then you need to see a counselor about that tick.


"There is NO good that can come of any Nationalized healthcare program, and the more intrusion that exists the worse we are going to suffer."



I suggest you check the facts there. Because the facts show that no other 1st world nation in the world has our fucked up system. They are ALL more socialist than we are. In addition many of those socialist hellholes have better REAL WORLD results than we do.

Once again... stop living in a factless theory world

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Originally Posted by nynco

taxes are part of life buddy you want to live in a land without taxes... point to one that functionally works. Till then you need to see a counselor about that tick.

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Taxes are fine, its how they are used that is the issue.

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Originally Posted by nynco

"There is NO good that can come of any Nationalized healthcare program, and the more intrusion that exists the worse we are going to suffer."



I suggest you check the facts there. Because the facts show that no other 1st world nation in the world has our fucked up system. They are ALL more socialist than we are. In addition many of those socialist hellholes have better REAL WORLD results than we do.

Once again... stop living in a factless theory world

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Bullshit. Every single "socialist" healthcare system in the world sucks ass, and they are all going more and more privatized as they figure that out. Sorry but you lose that argument. You need to wake up and take an economics class or two.

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Originally Posted by Sharpienads

Uh, you, Sir, are obviously racist.

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Evidently.

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Originally Posted by nynco

I suggest you check the facts there. Because the facts show that no other 1st world nation in the world has our fucked up system. They are ALL more socialist than we are. In addition many of those socialist hellholes have better REAL WORLD results than we do.

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The claim that socialized medicine has better "results" than the US health care system has been debunked repeatedly. But it keeps being repeated among the left-wing political sites you evidently frequent. True measures of health care delivery like survival rates of persons diagnosed with diseases show that your claim is false. Compare cancer survival rates between places like Britain's NHS and the US for an example. Large disparity between them and the US is far better. Usually such comparisons use life expectancy comparisons that don't really compare health care delivery but instead are dominated by fatal accident rates, crime rates and differences in lifestyles unrelated to health care delivery.

Here is an example of what I mean: a comparison of Canada and US health care delivery.

You really are showing a very shallow understanding of the topics you yourself bring up.

Bullshit. Every single "socialist" healthcare system in the world sucks ass, and they are all going more and more privatized as they figure that out. Sorry but you lose that argument. You need to wake up and take an economics class or two.

Could you please point to factual proof to your emotional rant. Because I know for a fact that when Canadians were polled a few years back about trading their healthcare system for ours - 90% said NO. I also know for a fact that our measurable outcomes like infant mortality are way behind many of those socialist nations you fear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nynco

Bullshit. Every single "socialist" healthcare system in the world sucks ass, and they are all going more and more privatized as they figure that out. Sorry but you lose that argument. You need to wake up and take an economics class or two.

Could you please point to factual proof to your emotional rant. Because I know for a fact that when Canadians were polled a few years back about trading their healthcare system for ours - 90% said NO. I also know for a fact that our measurable outcomes like infant mortality are way behind many of those socialist nations you fear.

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Rebuted above. Infant mortality is not well correlated to the quality of health care delivery.