Reddit: "Police Officers: If ordered, would you confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens?"

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Originally Posted by jhood001

Okay. Now that we know what you were trying to say, let's revisit what you did say. And more importantly, how you said it -

Ah ha, but you say at the end of this quote the sorry if I see it as being ganged up, more importantly is how it was presented towards me... Hence why I drew that conclusion. And I fail to understand how an inquiry made partially in jest "Are you all high!?" in any way translates to an insult or accusation. Further, the common sense comment was made because if you were to look at the topic objectively and see from the enforcement perspective no one in their right mind would take a pay check over their life. "Ah shit, I'm probably going to get shot by some guy who doesn't want to give up his guns today- but hey, at least I'm gonna get paid!" See? That holds about as much water as a funnel.

History tells us that people will go against their better judgement and current morals if the pressure is great enough, or if enough of the populace is moving in a particular direction. JoeT had solid points. While you may believe that Germany was filled with evil people during the reign of Nazism, the reality is that they were no different than us. They were sold a lie regarding their immediate neighbors and the Jews living amongst them. Just like a lie is being sold right now about how gun owners are evil.

People will look the other way on things when they are the minority. They'll completely march in that other way-ardly direction if their livelihoods, safety, and family are threatened. Not all... But most. That is the point the others are trying to make to you in this thread. Sorry if you see it as posters ganging up on you.

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No, I don't believe Germany was filled with evil people, duped, yes, but not evil, at least not inherently evil. "The most important lesson I learned from fighting in Europe during WWII was that evil triumphs when good men do nothing." -A 10th MTN veteran of WWII.
I understand the point being made to me in this thread, I wasn't arguing against that at all. I was only stating that confiscation is very unpopular among the LE community right now. Could that change in the future? Of course- look at our stance on segregation now... Not equating gun control in the same light as the civil rights movement, just illustrating how popularity of issues shift through history. [Beer]

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

No, I don't believe Germany was filled with evil people, duped, yes, but not evil, at least not inherently evil. "The most important lesson I learned from fighting in Europe during WWII was that evil triumphs when good men do nothing." -A 10th MTN veteran of WWII.

I understand the point being made to me in this thread, I wasn't arguing against that at all. I was only stating that confiscation is very unpopular among the LE community right now. Could that change in the future? Of course- look at our stance on segregation now... Not equating gun control in the same light as the civil rights movement, just illustrating how popularity of issues shift through history. <img src="images/smilies/anim_beer1.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Beer" smilieid="102" class="inlineimg">

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Actually.. Edmund Burke is given that quote.. 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing', just because some person from the 10th mtn division paraphrased it doesn't make it theirs.

Just hand over the shovel and quit digging.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Further, the common sense comment was made because

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Please stop saying 'common sense' when trying to prove your points. I have heard the phrase 'common sense gun-laws' enough in the past few weeks to realize that anyone saying 'common sense' about anything is just trying to cow others into believing that their opinions are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

I can't believe the lack of common fricken sense going on in here...

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Common fricken sense? Based on how this thread has gone, your sense is probably the least-common on this matter. Perhaps that is something to ponder.

Have a good evening, Ronin.

Invoking "common sense" to buttress one's argument is the refuge of a weak argument (or arguer). In fact "Appeal to Common Sense" is often listed as a "Fallacy of Logic".

http://www.mcckc.edu/longview/socsci...Sense/cs4.html


Look Ronin, you and I may agree that a particular position is indeed "common sense" but relying on the term is intellectually lazy and leaves you way too open to people poking holes in your argument regardless of the degree of rightness of said position.

Your use of ad hominems isn't helping either.

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Originally Posted by Monky

Actually.. Edmund Burke is given that quote.. 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing', just because some person from the 10th mtn division paraphrased it doesn't make it theirs.

Just hand over the shovel and quit digging.

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Gosh, my knees hurt, you wanna stop hacking at them? For once, can I ask respectfully that you back off just a bit... jeez, you're like that stereotypical high school bully who just picks every little thing out to go after.... CONTEXT. I know Edmund Burke originally said it, remove the stick from your 4th point of contact already. The key words were not the quote paraphrasing, but in context of Germany, WWII, etc. If I have to I'll go slow and explain it to you... you see, in the 1940's we invaded Europe to liberate it from the grip of the Germans. Our soldiers saw first hand the tyranny that was allowed to occur at the hands of the Nazis, and many were left asking "how did it get so far so fast?" That's when the realization that Germany wouldn't have gotten so far had one of the good folks stood up and stopped it. Hence the context of the quote... and why I attributed it to the WWII vet instead of Burke. And you can have my shovel when you pry it from my cold dead hands, thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by jhood001

Please stop saying 'common sense' when trying to prove your points. I have heard the phrase 'common sense gun-laws' enough in the past few weeks to realize that anyone saying 'common sense' about anything is just trying to cow others into believing that their opinions are wrong.



Common fricken sense? Based on how this thread has gone, your sense is probably the least-common on this matter. Perhaps that is something to ponder.

Have a good evening, Ronin.

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Okay, I'll use Logic... there's a word that escapes the average liberal mind. Of course I'd love to ponder your opinion but you had to resort to an insult so I stopped accepting your input right there... You have a good evening yourself.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Okay, I'll use Logic... there's a word that escapes the average liberal mind. Of course I'd love to ponder your opinion but you had to resort to an insult so I stopped accepting your input right there... You have a good evening yourself.

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I didn't 'resort' to anything. Nor did I insult you in any fashion.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

False. Inquiry is not accusation. [Beer]

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Rhetoric is not inquiry. [Beer]

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Originally Posted by jhood001

I didn't 'resort' to anything. Nor did I insult you in any fashion.

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I took:

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Originally Posted by jhood001

Based on how this thread has gone, your sense is probably the least-common on this matter.

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To be in an insulting fashion, although not a direct insult.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

I took:

To be in an insulting fashion, although not a direct insult.

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I see. Well, I'm sorry you took it that way. I meant that your opinion on the matter, after the blow-back you experienced, was in the minority.

/ hugs? Oh.. and I know you meant to say that the allies went to liberate Europe from the Axis powers which included the Nazis, not the average German people who were caught up in it. Splitting hairs I know, and I'm not attacking you so please don't get defensive. Having lived there for 4 years and talking to lots of older Germans, their perspective was interesting. If common sense were common, more people would have some.