In other CO legislative news- CO General Assembly Passes Civil Unions Bill

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Originally Posted by davsel

This is another false "teaching" attributed to the Bible.

This link explains it better than I:
http://www.letusreason.org/Pent44.htm

"This article is being written on behalf of all the ministries and people that defend the faith with the truth and are accused of judging because they test those who teach falsely with the Word of God.

The premise-Does God tell us not to judge?
The Bibles answer-No He does not.


John 7:24 Jesus says: “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” What Jesus does tell us is not to judge by our own opinions, but instead judge by the word of God, that is what it means to judge righteously. He always encouraged the people to judge. God told Israel to judge the prophets in the Old Testament. He had the true prophets judge the false but the people reacted saying the very same things people are saying today. Your being negative oh you never have anything good to say. In the New Testament we are told to judge prophecy, to discern, to test the spirits and we are told to test ALL things. We are told to do this because it helps keep us away from what is false and evil. The apostle Paul showed us how to judge so there would be no second guesswork. The apostle Paul said, “If anyone preaches another gospel let him be accursed” Would anyone say to Paul's face “your judging.” In 2 Thess. 3:14-15 “And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.” Strong guidelines that many avoid to do today. These are done not to condemn but to bring repentance and restoration."

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I believe I'm going to be a broken record here and repeat myself- YOU CANNOT, in our modern society, interpret the bible literally. And the bible is full of contradictory statements... Hence why I stated I do not follow it to the T and take the passages within with a grain of salt:
Matthew 7

1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

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Originally Posted by davsel

Certainly true. I am not concerned about my morals changing, but with societies morals changing. I am simply expressing my moral beliefs. Some will hear, most will not, but I will continue to my last breath, God willing. Others wish to shout down my morals and tell me I must accept what is immoral, or that I should just keep quiet. I will not.

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So here is the crux of it, you wish to impart your morals on the society and any divergence from your morals is determined to be the prophetic downfall of civilization.
Yes, you can vote to try to push a moral agenda, or any other agenda, and I am glad we theoretically live in a country where this is allowed and encouraged. But don't be surprised when the same system that gaurantees your freedom to have a religion that your moral foundation is based upon, then affords someone else a privelage that you deem unworthy or immoral by the same voting.
I don't have a dog in the fight and could give 2 shts less either way. But wasting government time and money trying to regulate the things people do that has zero impact on others is what is really pointless. Smoke weed, but contribute to the society, fine. Live a ethical and honorable life, but marry (civil union, whatever) the same sex, who cares? It's the removing of our rights that should have everyone up in arms. The rights are what are common for every law abiding American. Everything else is just more fodder from the divide and conquuer playbook.

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Originally Posted by davsel

I should not have used the word, "you" in my statement. "the homosexual lobby," would have been a better choice.

Yes, I certainly can "tell someone else they can't do something [I] disapprove of." I do it all the time. And have no intention of stopping the practice.

"Civil Union" is one step closer to "Marriage." This is where it is going to end up. Marriage is defined and explained throughout the Bible. I do not believe homosexuals should be "Married." This is my belief, and I vote/speak accordingly. There is not enough space here to get into all the ways public acceptance of homosexuality affects me and my family. In short, it is another glaring sign of the next fall of civilization. I can't stop it, but I will never accept it as valid.

Your morals are likely different than mine. No problem from here - I know where I'm grounded.

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Sorry, I shouldn't have said "tell" when what I meant was "prohibit." Of course you can say whatever you want. I believe liberty means being free from imposition of someone else's beliefs, and everyone is entitled to that modicum of liberty.

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree at this point. You feel you have an obligation to correct everyone else's sin as you perceive it, and I think you have an obligation to leave them alone.

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Originally Posted by Teufelhund

Sorry, I shouldn't have said "tell" when what I meant was "prohibit." Of course you can say whatever you want. I believe liberty means being free from imposition of someone else's beliefs, and everyone is entitled to that modicum of liberty.

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree at this point. You feel you have an obligation to correct everyone else's sin as you perceive it, and I think you have an obligation to leave them alone.

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I like where your head's at! [Beer]

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Originally Posted by mtnhack

So here is the crux of it, you wish to impart your morals on the society and any divergence from your morals is determined to be the prophetic downfall of civilization.
Yes, you can vote to try to push a moral agenda, or any other agenda, and I am glad we theoretically live in a country where this is allowed and encouraged. But don't be surprised when the same system that gaurantees your freedom to have a religion that your moral foundation is based upon, then affords someone else a privelage that you deem unworthy or immoral by the same voting.
I don't have a dog in the fight and could give 2 shts less either way. But wasting government time and money trying to regulate the things people do that has zero impact on others is what is really pointless. Smoke weed, but contribute to the society, fine. Live a ethical and honorable life, but marry (civil union, whatever) the same sex, who cares? It's the removing of our rights that should have everyone up in arms. The rights are what are common for every law abiding American. Everything else is just more fodder from the divide and conquuer playbook.

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Thank you! Hatred and bigotry won't solve the bigger problems the government keeps throwing onto the people. If we are to get anywhere as a nation, people have to get along peacefully. I would happily educate a homosexual on their 2nd Amendment rights, the same would go for an ethnic minority who has become a US citizen. I've met plenty of people from all religions living peacefully bothering no one who are willing to help me uphold my right to bear arms even if they themselves don't believe in gun ownership.

The davesels in the shooting community make it difficult to feel comfortable shooting alone in controlled ranges because I wear a gay pride pin everywhere to be visible as a reference to dismantle stereotypes. On my old denim jacket there was an American flag, and beneath it, a rainbow flag. On the lapel were my GOA pin and pagan (wiccan) pin (it's the religion of my ancestors, not the modern thing).

I wear only the gay pride pin and the GOA pin now.

I dress very modestly - it's easier to CCW and have layers.

Hate is so easy, such a cop-out. The sheer numbers of GLBT in EMS, in LE, in the military that I personally know who celebrate the beginning of basic legal equality for civil unions number in the dozens - and I am a stay-at-home housewife. It isn't about intercourse, it's about who you love, to the exclusion of all others. That's the core of a family. Since government is in the business of having special benefits for hetero married couples, then the reality of a civil union for gay couples is equable from an administrative perspective if the values of stable families are deemed significant enough to elevate above those granted all others.

I get that some religious folks will hemorrhage over it.

It comes with the territory of not living a lie.

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Originally Posted by Trisha

The davesels in the shooting community make it difficult to feel comfortable shooting alone in controlled ranges because I wear a gay pride pin everywhere to be visible as a reference to dismantle stereotypes.

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Speaking of stereotypes, at no point an any of my posts, here or elsewhere, did I ever speak of hating anyone.

First law: Love God
Second: Love everyone as yourself

Not all "religious types" are hate-filled Westboro Baptist followers. I have often stood between Phelps and funeral attendees as a Patriot Guard Rider.
I have a very close lesbian LE friend and several lesbian acquaintances (through my wife's work), and more than one gay family member. I was friends with several homosexuals while serving 21 years in the USAF (during a time when it was a private matter). I try to love 'em all. I do not agree with their lifestyle, and they know this. Hate does not come into the equation.

You will be perfectly safe wearing your gay pride pin in my presence. I will not even bring up the subject. However, if you bring it up, I will openly share my beliefs. Take 'em or leave 'em. Agreeing to disagree is no problem for me. Some will hear, most will not.

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Originally Posted by davsel

Speaking of stereotypes, at no point an any of my posts, here or elsewhere, did I ever speak of hating anyone.

First law: Love God
Second: Love everyone as yourself

Not all "religious types" are hate-filled Westboro Baptist followers. I have often stood between Phelps and funeral attendees as a Patriot Guard Rider.
I have a very close lesbian LE friend and several lesbian acquaintances (through my wife's work), and more than one gay family member. I was friends with several homosexuals while serving 21 years in the USAF (during a time when it was a private matter). I try to love 'em all. I do not agree with their lifestyle, and they know this. Hate does not come into the equation.

You will be perfectly safe wearing your gay pride pin in my presence. I will not even bring up the subject. However, if you bring it up, I will openly share my beliefs. Take 'em or leave 'em. Agreeing to disagree is no problem for me. Some will hear, most will not.

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You're asking them to keep their personal lives and opinions private.... Maybe you should follow your own advice and shut the hell up. :D

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

I believe I'm going to be a broken record here and repeat myself- YOU CANNOT, in our modern society, interpret the bible literally. And the bible is full of contradictory statements... Hence why I stated I do not follow it to the T and take the passages within with a grain of salt:

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I am certain I have heard that broken record applied by liberals to the United States Constitution; specifically the 2nd Amendment.
Just an observation.

33 posts is all it took for you to piss off half the board.... Good job, Obama voter.