Target asks customers to leave firearms at home

We just need to open carry more around here so we can desensitize the masses.

Just kidding. These Open Carry Texas guys are a bunch of basement dwelling rejects. It's abundantly clear that they have no helped their cause at all, and are in fact hurting it. Regardless of your thoughts on Open Carry this is a pretty undeniable fact.

I'll still shop at target because the soccer moms are super hot and its 6 blocks from my house. I will also still carry concealed when I go there, just like I do when I go to starbucks.

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Originally Posted by Irving

You weren't talking to me, but I'm very selective on who I shoot with. There are people in my family that I don't want to shoot with, even after being asked. I make those decisions based on my knowledge of their decision making skills. When it comes to strangers, I am automatically weary of them in general, even more with guns. When someone is open carrying a rifle some where just for the shit of it, they might as well have kicked the door open and yelled, "I regularly make poor decisions!" while holding the rifle over their head.

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I'm with you on this, but I would like to have a t-shirt with "I regularly make poor decisions".

A simple form letter to Target corporate after each of your shopping trips else where could look something like this:

Dear Mr. Mulligan

This past week I spent $XXX.XX at (insert store name here) purchasing (insert goods here). I made the decision to shop at a location other than Target stores due to the corporate decision to deny my constitutional right to carry a firearm. According to the Texas Department of Public Safety legal concealed carry holders commit crimes at a fraction of the rate of the general public meaning that legal carriers of firearms are also a safer and more law abiding group of people than the general public, crime reports of concealed carry holders vs. the general public can be seen here: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl.../convrates.htm

Based on this information, if you had two stores side by side, one being Target which requests that firearms not be allowed in their stores and one being (insert store you recently shopped at here) which has no policy on firearms, (insert store you recently shopped at here) would be the safer and more family friendly store to enter and to spend your money at.

Please see my attached shopping receipt of the goods I purchased elsewhere in a safer shopping environment.

Respectfully,
(your name here)

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Originally Posted by cstone

In Texas, the only firearms permitted to be openly carried are long guns. Legally, a citizen may carry an AK or a Mosin but may not legally open carry a handgun. I understand the point of the open carry demonstrations in Texas were to point out the absurdity of the current open carry laws in Texas.

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And they will quite likely end up with the same result that the open-carry-california crowd achieved: no more open carry.

Had the open carry proponents in CA individually gone about their daily lives with a pistol on their hip, they'd probably have been fine. But no, they had to amass in groups of 20-40 OC people at a time on small businesses to make a statement. It worked.

Had the open carry TX people not felt the need to go in groups maybe it'd not have hit the national media they way it has.

Open carry is legal in CO (well, in much of it), if anyone here wants to see that taken away, just get a bunch of guys together and start going to retail locations en masse, y'all can get your 15 minutes of fame too. The same people that took away 30rd mags and FTF sales would be happy to take OC away.

Open carry seems to have a lot in common with riding a Jetski: neither activity seems possible without an audience.

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Originally Posted by hatidua

The same people that took away 30rd mags and FTF sales would be happy to take OC away.

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Open Carry does not fuel the fight being waged by people who want to take guns and magazines away. This is not a logical argument to them, it is part of an ideological argument that progressives are making about the fundamental nature of our Constitution.

IMO, the position many are taking toward the Texas Open Carry demonstrators comes too close to blaming the behavior and dress of rape victims for the crime of rape.

If clowns scare children, no clown should be allowed in public. If clowns can't police themselves by keeping hidden, the State must pass a law prohibiting the wearing of red noses and big shoes. Public places and retail establishments should prohibit the presence of clowns or openly displaying clown regalia. We want people, especially children to feel safe.

This is an absurd example because being a clown is a personal expression. The First Amendment protects our freedom of expression. I do not want to criticize other clowns because their presence in public possibly provides evidence to clown haters who are bent on eliminating all clowns.

THEY are coming for all of us clowns; The scary ones, the sad ones, the silly ones. THEY will not be satisfied until all clowns are illegal, gone or in hiding. Don't blame the way a few clowns look for what THEY want to do to all of us.

Be safe.

This situation seems to be:
Someone walked into a business and upset the other people shopping there. The business proceeded to politely say,"Don't to that."

Was the upset intentional or not, we could argue that forever and I have my opinion. All that really matters is people were upset.
Was the request of the business beyond what was necessary? We could argue that as well, I think it was. At least they are not actually posting the stores, it could have been worse.

The business has no obligation to allow you to speak your mind. You want to hold a demonstration, close a street and get 50+ people with banners (and rifles) saying "This rifle is heavy, let me carry a handgun." That gets your point across clearly.

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Originally Posted by def90

Simply taking your business elsewhere is not enough. An organized letter writing campaign is also needed. A simple drop in sales is just that to the corporate heads, could be caused by anything. A drop in sales in conjunction with hundreds of thousands of letters including shopping receipts of your purchases made at Target competitors rather than Target makes a statement.

Simple boycotts are a waste of time without the dual cause and effect corellation.


sent from a soup can and some string..

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Don't disagree def, we should be at least as noisy as our opponents but as evidenced by this thread there isn't even consensus here, just a dog pile on some guys legally exercising their rights in a way they happen to disagree with and that the anti-gunners used for bad press (because they had absolutely nothing else before). The negative press is blown completely out of proportion by MDA and an anti-gun media to force an agenda and what do our guys do? Buy into the hysteria, join in crucifying the guys and keep shopping at Target "because the soccer moms are hot". That level of organization is not going to take us far.

Whether you like their actions or not or care for their appearance or think they have single-handedly set gun rights back 100 years it doesn't matter - they were legally exercising a right. The guys here tearing them down aren't going to organize, they can't even grasp how rights work apparently - you don't get to decide how someone else exercises their right within legal boundaries and contrary to popular belief your impression of how "stupid" it was is completely irrelevant.

I see a lot of "letters" on here folks [say they] send to their reps I completely disagree with, I see folks on here advocating actions I don't agree with, I certainly disagree with a "dress code" for OC. The difference is I respect their right because... well it's a right! "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" as applied to a right ranks right up there with "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" in my estimation. What the hell is the point of having a right if you're afraid to exercise it for fear of it being taken away? I call it a delusion.

You can disagree with their tactics, dress or the way they wear their hair and that's fine but why let it stop us from pursuing the larger goal and simply letting MDA pressure business after business into creating policy they want? Is it because you covertly agree those guys [legally] exercising their rights in that manner should be restricted? I already know the answer, I've seen it expressed on this very board.

What's missing is the OC guys did not create MDA, they did not create the mindset I see reflected here that guys OC-ing in Chili's or Starbucks are "scary" or "inappropriate", MDA did that and you ate it with a spoon. That is the hardest thing about freedom, letting the other guy have his.


"You" in this context is ubiquitous and doesn't refer to def90 or anyone specifically but collectively.

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Originally Posted by cstone

Open Carry does not fuel the fight being waged by people who want to take guns and magazines away. This is not a logical argument to them, it is part of an ideological argument that progressives are making about the fundamental nature of our Constitution.

IMO, the position many are taking toward the Texas Open Carry demonstrators comes too close to blaming the behavior and dress of rape victims for the crime of rape.

If clowns scare children, no clown should be allowed in public. If clowns can't police themselves by keeping hidden, the State must pass a law prohibiting the wearing of red noses and big shoes. Public places and retail establishments should prohibit the presence of clowns or openly displaying clown regalia. We want people, especially children to feel safe.

This is an absurd example because being a clown is a personal expression. The First Amendment protects our freedom of expression. I do not want to criticize other clowns because their presence in public possibly provides evidence to clown haters who are bent on eliminating all clowns.

THEY are coming for all of us clowns; The scary ones, the sad ones, the silly ones. THEY will not be satisfied until all clowns are illegal, gone or in hiding. Don't blame the way a few clowns look for what THEY want to do to all of us.

Be safe.

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+1 Nice metaphor

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Originally Posted by cstone

THEY are coming for all of us clowns; The scary ones, the sad ones, the silly ones. THEY will not be satisfied until all clowns are illegal, gone or in hiding. Don't blame the way a few clowns look for what THEY want to do to all of us.

Be safe.

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Yup, easiest way is to come for us is to divide us. Create division within. Then go after the group that even pro-2a people don't like. Then, the crowd shrinks even more. Look at any other activist group. My first example would be the bakery incident. One could argue that the patrons were just stirring up a fight by asking that baker to do something he wasn't comfortable with. They had plenty of other bakeries that would gladly make their cake. Did others in the GLBT movement chastise those patrons and tell them to stop being jerks? Nope, they rallied behind them and swung an even heavier stick.

Why are we so quick to go to the "Just conceal it" idea? Imagine if someone suggested that to a gay person. What would happen? Open carrying isn't for me but I doubt that every gay person opts for the "loud and proud" lifestyle either yet they all stay cohesive and support each other because they see the bigger picture. The problem 2A people run into is the media is not on our side. They spew terrible information/stats that get the idle bystander on their side. Then, when stores come out and do this and 2a people AGREE with Target, that makes it even worse for us. It just fuels the "well see, common sense regulation IS ok".

I only use the gay references as it is a current hot topic for politics too. It's not meant as a gay bash or anything. Just an example of how the left operates versus the right.

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Originally Posted by merl

This situation seems to be:
Someone walked into a business and upset the anti-gunners not even in the vicinity who created a media frenzy and terror campaign against the business. The business proceeded to politely say,"Don't to that."

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FIFY