Gonna be a mess - got an excuse to agitate

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Originally Posted by O2HeN2

The mob doesn't like to lose. They'll be back, next time without warning and probably with cocktails that have previously been used against businesses.

Civil War 2.0 is spreading to the suburbs.

O2

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These little incursions in to surburbia are just recon missions. Giving suburbanites a false sense of security. of Oh hell yeah we ran em off

The real agitators usually don't make an appearance till midnight. Based on current "intel" as well as other sources, keeping an eye on things.
That's when the real deal fires up, as seen on T.V ;)

If you asked any of those who participated how may vehicles, or people walking in the neighborhood that didn't look like they lived in the area, they noticed. You'd get a Huh?

While people are focused on the opposing sides contact, who knows who is taking notes.

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Originally Posted by VDW

I concur. I am against all hate crime legislation, as I see it as a dangerous road to go down, and a clear violation of the equal protection clause. A crime is a crime, regardless of the alleged thought process behind it, and should be prosecuted as such.

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Yep. Crimes are actions. Whenever someone tries to get into another person's head and divine some additive value to a punishment, that goes against my libertarian tendencies.

I think certain professions...cops, firefighters, elderly, etc...deserve extra protections under the law because society knowingly asks them to go in harm's way or because they are very vulnerable. But you don't need hate crime legislation to do that. For example, Assault in the 1st Deg requires actual serious bodily injury occur with a deadly weapon (simplified explanation). But for peace officers and firefighters it requires only the threat of injury. I'm OK with that.

I'm also OK with enhanced penalties. You commit Crime X against Joe Citizen and the penalty is Y. Commit the same crime against Joe Firefighter and the penalty is Y+.

Makes sense now where all the "mobsters" are coming from:

https://i.imgur.com/lUl8jON.jpg

http://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/...78&oe=5F5873F5

PDW = Pacific Dead West?

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

I think certain professions...cops, firefighters, elderly, etc...deserve extra protections under the law because society knowingly asks them to go in harm's way or because they are very vulnerable. But you don't need hate crime legislation to do that. For example, Assault in the 1st Deg requires actual serious bodily injury occur with a deadly weapon (simplified explanation). But for peace officers and firefighters it requires only the threat of injury. I'm OK with that.

I'm also OK with enhanced penalties. You commit Crime X against Joe Citizen and the penalty is Y. Commit the same crime against Joe Firefighter and the penalty is Y+.

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Would it work the other way around? If Joe Firefighter committees a crime against Joe Citizen, then penalty is Y+?

All enhancements accomplish is further stacking charges to ensure the subject is required to take a plea bargain in any circumstance. That's not to say that enhanced charges are the cause of that, merely a facet. It's foolish to believe someone is actually getting convicted of Y+ though..... they get charged with A, D, L, F, G, Y+, X+, M, N, P, and Q. It would cost them $500,000 and two years to defend it, so they accept a plea bargain of Y, spend three months in the can and everyone wins (except, well, those people).

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Originally Posted by Irving

Would it work the other way around? If Joe Firefighter committees a crime against Joe Citizen, then penalty is Y+?

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Keep in mind these protections are generally only applicable when the cop/firefighter is on duty. When a cop does certain things on duty there are other laws they can be charged with that Joe Citizen can't. So the answer to your question is there are certain laws that cover that already.

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Originally Posted by FoxtArt

All enhancements accomplish is further stacking charges to ensure the subject is required to take a plea bargain in any circumstance. That's not to say that enhanced charges are the cause of that, merely a facet. It's foolish to believe someone is actually getting convicted of Y+ though..... they get charged with A, D, L, F, G, Y+, X+, M, N, P, and Q. It would cost them $500,000 and two years to defend it, so they accept a plea bargain of Y, spend three months in the can and everyone wins (except, well, those people).

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I don't see it as stacking charges. You stab someone and cause SBI you get charged with Assault 1. You use the same knife and threaten to stab Joe Police you get charged with Assault 1. An enhancement is like charging Harassment with Domestic Violence. DV isn't a charge...just enhances the charge. After re-reading my post above I didn't explain myself very clearly.