Active shooter reported at Oregon college campus

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Originally Posted by Irving

When people with guns start making a difference...

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But this is why "good guys" (the police) carry guns. If carrying guns did not make a difference, LE would have been disarmed decades ago.

Like so many other similar incidents, the criminal was stopped when he was confronted by gun wielding public servants. Every time there is a justified shooting in this country, I assume that the gun in the hands of a free person made a difference, regardless of whether the person is acting on behalf of the state or as a private individual.

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Originally Posted by Irving

When people with guns start making a difference. There are some 300 million guns in the country, and this happens over and over again. Each time people holler about, "If there was just a person with a gun there....blah blah blah." With as many guns in this country as there are people, WHERE ARE ALL THE GOOD GUYS WITH THE GUNS? Don't plan on convincing ANYONE that a good guy with a gun is the answer, unless you can start citing references of a good guy with a gun. I can think of only one recent instance where someone tried to commit a shooting of the public, in public, where a CCW carrier was present and present and drew his gun. That was at one of the mall shootings I believe. I think there was a CCW holder present when Gabby Giffords was shot, but he didn't draw.

Don't take this as me not agreeing with you, as I do, but without evidence to support your beliefs, no one will get on board with you. Sure, we can all point to the little CCW briefs in the NRA magazine, but those aren't cutting it. People don't respond to prevented tragedy like they do fulfilled tragedy.

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10 cases...

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/...tive-shooter-2

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Originally Posted by cstone

But this is why "good guys" (the police) carry guns. If carrying guns did not make a difference, LE would have been disarmed decades ago.

Like so many other similar incidents, the criminal was stopped when he was confronted by gun wielding public servants. Every time there is a justified shooting in this country, I assume that the gun in the hands of a free person made a difference, regardless of whether the person is acting on behalf of the state or as a private individual.

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I know that, and we know that, but that is clearly not enough to convince the masses.

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Originally Posted by kidicarus13

10 cases...

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/...tive-shooter-2

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Same thing here. This stuff seems so obvious to us, because it is. However, to someone who thinks people can somehow evolve into accepting peace, this evidence is just not good enough. What needs to happen when evidence is just not good enough to convince a person?

When a good guy with a gun goes to jail for violating a 'gun free zone', you're comparing apples and orangutans. I avoid gun free zones for this reason. This 'good-guy' will likely not be there in the first place.

The heck with the 2nd Amendment. This is about the natural right of self-preservation when someone wants to assassinate you for being a Christian.

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Originally Posted by Irving

I know that, and we know that, but that is clearly not enough to convince the masses.


Same thing here. This stuff seems so obvious to us, because it is. However, to someone who thinks people can somehow evolve into accepting peace, this evidence is just not good enough. What needs to happen when evidence is just not good enough to convince a person?

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There will always be people who are so convinced they are right, on whatever subject they choose, that they will not permit the existence of logic or evidence to cause them to sway from their position. I find this to be true of almost everyone I have ever met, including myself, depending on the subject.

When the immovable object meets the irresistible force...

News conference of ATF report on weapons. Qty recovered only, no details.

1. Not going to hot link this, probably best you copy/paste to watch the video.
2. How do these people get jobs? "Flank Jacket." with steel plates. [facepalm]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBobMSl643I

I think it will take survivors and people who have been saved by someone else, speaking up loudly, to change the minds of those who can't accept reality.

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Originally Posted by Irving

I think it will take survivors and people who have been saved by someone else, speaking up loudly, to change the minds of those who can't accept reality.

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Those that don't see reality for what it is will possibly never see reality no matter what happens.

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Originally Posted by kidicarus13

Those that don't see reality for what it is will possibly never see reality no matter what happens.

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My hope was that at the very least they'd be less likely to publicly shout them down and say they were wrong. Then it would be easier for the message to come across without all the noise.

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Originally Posted by Irving

My hope was that at the very least they'd be less likely to publicly shout them down and say they were wrong. Then it would be easier for the message to come across without all the noise.

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You're dealing with irrational people. Rationale wont do any good.