I started this post after seeing lane splitting every day in 6th Ave. Nasty looking MC accident on 6th Ave this afternoon. Hope the rider is ok.
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I started this post after seeing lane splitting every day in 6th Ave. Nasty looking MC accident on 6th Ave this afternoon. Hope the rider is ok.
I've so wanted to see some of the idiots during my commutes pulled over and cited for reckless driving, but it never happens. As the old saying goes, there's never a cop around when you need one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
For the uninformed disbelievers:
So your substantiation is a poorly done academic study from a state where lane-splitting is part of the norm? By poorly done, I mean their study suffers from self-selection bias (studied only motorcyclists involved in collisions of which 17% were lane-splitting at the time of the accident). In fact, they found a strong correlation between speed differential and injury but otherwise relied on rationales provided by the lane-splitters. One of the rationales cited was a greater ability to distance themselves from traffic clusters but to do this, they actually have to put themselves in closer proximity to other vehicles. The study doesn't even remotely support your unconditional statement that lane-splitting improves safety, period. What does support is that there are situations and conditions where it can be done with a lower risk of serious injury but that's an entirely different premise.Quote:
Originally Posted by wctriumph
They say "goal of the analysis was to increase our understanding of collisions involving lane-splitting motorcyclists and of how lane-splitting impacts collision injuries". Their study shows that the collision injuries are strongly linked to traffic speed and the speed differential between vehicles but they also state 38% of the splitters only split when traffic was stalled or stop-and-go with another 27% only splititng when traffic was going 20 mph or less. So over half of the accidents they examined with lane-splitters were skewed toward lower injury-type accidents while the other accidents in their study are likely skewed toward higher speeds and speed differentials (being collisions not involving stalled traffic).
If they were serious about proving lane-splitting to be safer unconditionally as you state, they should have looked at the entire population of motorcyclists and examined the differential accident rates between splitters and non-splitters -- in fact, they state "the primary limitation is our lack of exposure data. To estimate how the risk of being involved in a collision changes when motorcyclists chose to lane-split, we would require information on both the lane-splitting and non-lane-splitting riding that is done by some identifiable sample of motorcyclists."
On the bright side, the researchers DO acknowledge "there has been considerable discussion in the motorcycling community that lane-splitting should be done only at lower speed differentials. Many riders advocate for speed differentials of 10, 15, or 20 MPH." As I said before, I am quite sure there are plenty of scenarios and instances where lane-splitting -- like exceeding the posted speed limit -- can be done safely. That doesn't mean I agree with making it legal or normal any more than I would advocate raising the speed limit on I-25 to 150 mph in general. The fact that I can safely drive over 100 mph on an open flat freeway in dry sunny conditions with low congestion doesn't mean driving over 100 mph is generally safer -- which is the analog between this study and your blanket statement.
I agree. If they made that a primary infraction, police would be writing so many tickets, they would need extra printer cartridges in their cruisers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
For the love of God, enough with statistics!
I have been riding 35 years and most of it in Italy, in the traffic of Rome.
Lane splitting is the norm, nobody waits behind a car at a traffic light, traffic lights are a suggestion rather than an order and on it goes.
Those of you who have been there know what I mean.
In fact I used to ride motorcycles and scooters for a living delivering packages 10 hrs a day.
Knock on wood I still don't know what a broken bone feels like.
It's a combination of riders expecting drivers to do anything at any time and drivers expecting riders to come out of nowhere at any time, in short paying attention and not drive like drones.
People need to wake up when they are driving.
^^^ yep.
The funny thing is if we were to switch all terminology to guns, the naysayers would be as ridiculous as the libtards.
"The study is flawed!" (because it doesn't agree with your histrionic, data-lacking viewpoint?) "It's dangerous!" (um, driving a vehicle in general is dangerous). "there's no point!" (yeah there is: to not contribute to unnecessary traffic stop-n-go, look out for my own safety, and not get rear-ended by the jackass checking up on FB instead of watching the road.)
Filtering simply works. It's not supposed to be a scene out of a Michael Bay film. It's the ability to eliminate placing the rider between the auto-jaws of a car-vice, improve traffic flow, and in general be less of a problem for other drivers. It's a rather slow process as concerns speed, provides much more maneuverability, etc.
For a group of people who supposedly pride themselves on trotting out the simple facts when it comes to other arguments, I'm surprised at the amount of effete, factless, emotionally driven bitching.
My time in Italy was where cars and trucks came standard with a gas pedal and Horn. The brake pedal was optional.Quote:
Originally Posted by bellavite1
Middle finger and arm waving were drivers responsibility.
Interesting thing about Italy and other european countries, when it comes to driving . You can have 4 lanes doing the speed limit +, with a traffic circle coming up. Between the cursing, middle fingers, yelling and horns blaring, they still manage to flow through the circle with minimal issues.
Here in the states, you can't get someone to stop for a red light or stop sign, let alone manage to make it round the circle without it becoming a major project.
Some posts make it sound like it's just the "filtering" at stop lights, etc. I don't have an issue with that. But motorcycles splitting lanes in regular moving traffic is asking for irresponsible.
I’ve been riding since I was a little kid—probably right around 45 years of riding. Knock on wood, but I’ve never been in an accident on a street bike. I’ve had many friends and family members try to talk me out of riding on the street because it’s “just not safe.”
Philosophically, I don’t stop doing things just because there’s an element of danger. If I did this, I wouldn’t do many things I do. “Ships are safest in port, but that’s not what ships are for...” and all that.
This being said, I continue to live by the idea that the safest way to ride a motorcycle is to behave like a car. Don’t accelerate quickly. Don’t change lanes quickly. Don’t take turns at twice the speed of the cagers. Deviating from what 99% of the other vehicles on the road are doing adds significant risk of an accident. I feel this philosophy mitigates enough of the danger of riding that I can still justify doing it.
I guess I have libertarian tendencies when it comes to the concept of lane splitting. Go for it if you want to do it, but don’t expect the rest of society to change their ways to accommodate you. I hate it when people smoke in public and I really wish they wouldn’t, but I don’t really support laws against it. I don’t agree with homosexuality, but I don’t think it should be illegal. The corollary is that I also believe business owners should be able to decide for themselves if they’ll allow smoking at their place of business and decide whether to bake a cake celebrating homosexual behavior.
Lane splitting should be legal so long as the motorcyclist accepts all risk associated with the practice. The only way a car driver should be held responsible for a lane splitting accident is if the car driver intentionally caused the accident.