Diesel pickups are for chumps

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Originally Posted by 68Charger

IMHO, they're just explaining why they're not interested >at this time<... somebody has to be the pioneer that ponies up six figures for cars that have those limits... even if their motivation so they can be self-important pricks that believe that people using ICE's are neanderthals that are unworthy of their presence...

Once it's more adopted, and more infrastructure is in place and volume manufacturing brings prices down (which is starting to happen, but only starting)... then when they take a look at it, they'll go "hey, this could be a viable option" Tesla has the right idea building the network of charging stations that are high capacity to speed charging- it's just not enough to satisfy your average consumer >yet<

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There's also a flip side argument.

Those who say "look at the automobile - people said that never had a chance and they were wrong" are applying 20/20 hindsight by starting with something that's successful now but was once dismissed as a curiosity.

But in the history of automotive travel there are plenty of examples of the opposite: Things that were hailed as "the next big thing" by proponents but that turned out to be disastrous flops.

Steam Cars? Wankel Engines? Cars that could float or fly? Gas turbine engines?

All currently residing in the "what were they thinking?" section of the internet.

I think some form of electric propulsion will eventually become the standard for vehicles, but I'm not convinced it will be 100% electric because of both battery storage limits and charging time issues.

If I was to guess I'd say the "future standard" is going to be something like a fuel-cell hybrid or a hybrid using some other form of power to charge the batteries and create the electric power to move the vehicle.

If battery powered EV's do become a "standard" then I would expect it would radically change the way we travel. A multi day trip would not be done the way we do it now where we load up the SUV, fill it with gas and then spend 2 days driving to Grandma's house, stopping only for gas, meals, lodging or to take a photo next to the World's Largest Ball of Twine. Instead, you'd have to plan your trip to drive to, say, 75% of the battery limit (maybe 200 - 300 miles depending on the size of the vehicle) and then plan to stay several hours while parked at the charging station.

Another possibility might be charging stations at 100 mile intervals with cafe's, playgrounds, WiFi, etc, and the way to take the trip is to stop every 100 miles or so, spend an hour or two at the charging station and move on to the next one. I'm not sure that model would work in the sparsely populated West but you never know -we humans are endlessly adaptive. ;)

I like the idea of putting your car onto a train over large expanses of middle-of-nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Irving

I like the idea of putting your car onto a train over large expanses of middle-of-nowhere.

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That used to be the only way to get to Whittier, AK with your car/truck... but not because of "nowhere" but 2 tunnels thru mountains that are only train width.
now they have the tunnel paved, and it spends some time inbound, some time outbound, and some time for train traffic.

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Originally Posted by Martinjmpr

Those who say "look at the automobile - people said that never had a chance and they were wrong" are applying 20/20 hindsight by starting with something that's successful now but was once dismissed as a curiosity.

But in the history of automotive travel there are plenty of examples of the opposite: Things that were hailed as "the next big thing" by proponents but that turned out to be disastrous flops.

Steam Cars? Wankel Engines? Cars that could float or fly? Gas turbine engines?

All currently residing in the "what were they thinking?" section of the internet.

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You left out the attempts at electric vehicles in the late 1800's & Early 1900's.

I've been in and out of this thread and haven't had a lot of time so... A few things here...

I haven't seen anyone mention the price per mile difference which is substantial especially if you take into account more than just gasoline v. electric power (which by itself is significant) but also account for oil changes and all of the wearable parts that need to be replaced regularly. I do my own maintenance on our vehicles and having to change oil and other regular maintenance type things can be a PITA... especially when they come up in the winter months. The idea of not having all of these accessory items to make everything work that eventually fail also appeals greatly to me. Talking of leaving someone stranded somewhere I'd rather be able to plan on my known range than have anyone of a myriad of devices leave me stranded somewhere w/o notice.

If you know/understand the limitations of any vehicle (EV or otherwise) your life will be less complicated. As that applies to EV vehicles you take into account your range when you plan trips. Personally I couldn't tell you the last time I took a super long road trip somewhere since gas prices shot up over $2/gal. Couple/few hours here and there but I don't just drive across the states for the hell of it. In fact, for me anyway, I might actually drive even MORE if I owned a Model S as many come with free super charging via the Tesla network that's all over the country.

Seriously, if you think you're going to get stranded anywhere pull up a map of where the network is today and were it will be this time next year and factor in the range of a Model S/X/3 and tell me why you think you'll be stranded anywhere. The idea that I can travel from one coast to the other w/o paying a penny out of my own pocket is appealing and this is one aspect nobody has weighed when discussing the differences between an ICE car and an EV.

There's a lot of inherent bonuses to driving EV as well that aren't being discussed. For starers, they're whisper quiet which is SO nice for having a conversation (in person or over the phone) even at highway speeds. The funny part is some complain about tire noise in EVs and it's pretty much just because you notice them now as quiet as the rest of the vehicle is. The ability to have your car 70 degrees when you get in no matter the outside temperature is insanely nice. No exhaust smell or noise. Not having to "run" the engine to keep certain things going.

As for attempts at the EV over a hundred years ago, it's important that we keep in mind that EV was going to be how vehicles were powered once the electric grid was beefed up and it wasn't until Henry Ford developed the assembly line that the ICE vehicle won favor with the consumer and that was largely due to cost savings and the ability to mass produce them and put them in driveways. Had he used an assembly line to crank out EVs we'd be having an entirely different conversation today.

The driving across country for free, at the cost of time, is an interesting point. On Wednesday, I spent 7 hours driving and about $90 in gas. I wonder how/if EV will change the way that business owners/contractors will be compensated for mileage and tax write offs. I think that stuff will change, but not for a while; so now might be the golden period for that. Even in my low mpg van my mileage compensation outweighs what it costs to fill the vehicle. An EV vehicle would just be icing on the cake for most stuff along the front range. I'd love an autonomous vehicle to drive for me so I could work between stops. My trip on Wednesday is a perfect example. 7 hours is an enormous amount of time to not be working. That's an entirely different conversation though.

Supercharging a Tesla is not "free". https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

Modern oils have reduced a lot of the "pain" of regular maintenance. My car typically goes in for service annually.

You can tout the crazy acceleration of the Tesla, but this will also mean reduced tire life.

There is no free ride. If you want an EV, knock yourself out and get back to us about the concessions that you end up having to make because of the platform. We know people that own EVs, and they're not evangelists that think Elon Musk is the new Jesus. They end up driving their ICE vehicles in the winter due to the reduced battery performance in the winter and the amount of power required to run heating/defrost. They run into range/time issues and use their ICE vehicles. If you think that an EV will do everything you need, get one. Then when you run into a situation where you can't count on your EV, then please share.

To be fair, I think there is pretty much no such thing as a one size fits all vehicle, no matter the power source. I'd consider an EV for my wife's next vehicle, if she'd start remembering to charge her cell phone.

There are lots of Tesla youtube video with issues in terms of repair/maintehance/cost.
If I must get Ev, I would rather go to non-tesla route.

Our ICE vehicles work for us, no matter the trip length, etc. As a secondary vehicle, an EV may make sense if you're primary tooling around town or commuting. I can't afford an EV for a part-time vehicle.

You had mentioned using Tesla Superchargers for business. The linked article above includes this;

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As a commercial driver or operator, can I utilize the public Supercharger Network?

With the introduction of our Supercharger Fair Use Policy, we ask that vehicles used for commercial purposes not use the public Supercharger Network. If you are an interested commercial operator, please reach out to us so we can help recommend charging solutions that meet your business’ needs. Keeping the Supercharger Network available for non- commercial users will have a lasting positive impact on the Supercharger Network and Tesla customers as a whole.

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Just ran across this EV news;
Fed-up locals are setting electric scooters on fire and burying them at sea

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As cities from Santa Monica to Beverly Hills struggle to control a rapid proliferation of electric pay-per-mile scooters, some residents are taking matters into their own hands and waging a guerrilla war against the devices. These vandals are destroying or desecrating the vehicles in disturbingly imaginative ways, and celebrating their illegal deeds on social media - in full view of authorities and the public.

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