Atlanta Shooting

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Originally Posted by CS1983

This article has a few good points, but the overarching tone of it was "We dindu nuffin!"; it is, therefore, tone deaf (which is a theme for Maj. Yates in recent years).

For example, in Sacramento (https://i.imgur.com/NDglcu8.mp4), a man was falsely ID'd as having a warrant. Complies with police commands and stands with his hands on his head. Proceeds to then get drop kicked in the back by some tactical retard moron and that sets off a chain of events that leads someone who literally hadn't done anything being charged with resisting arrest. A false arrest, I might add (since, well, the warrant wasn't for him). What are people supposed to think when they see stuff like that? What is a person supposed to do when they are doing everything right and still get drop kicked in the kidneys?

What are people supposed to think when someone like Sgt. Charles Langley is playing some sick game of Simon Says Twister while continually telling the poor bastard he's going to get shot, and another cop on scene, Philip "Mitch" Brailsford, with a completely inappropriate engraving on his AR-15's dust cover (You're Fucked) unloads rounds when a drunk, sobbing, scared for his life person trips while crawling; when all they had to do was tell him to keep his hands up and secure him in cuffs the moment he was in the hall. How do any of us know we won't be the next Daniel Shaver, who did his best to comply under completely ridiculous and contradictory circumstances and was rewarded with being murdered? And then Brailsford not only gets away with it, he now gets a PTSD pension because he murdered someone. What the actual f...?

How do we know we won't be the next John Crawford? Given no time to drop a weapon before the responding officer opens fire, when we have no idea what's going on?

How do we know we won't be the next Philando Castile? Trying to get a wallet out and, having done our duty to inform the cop of the presence of a weapon, get lit up.

Such cops don't have the constitution to wear the uniform and interact with the public.

Are these incidents normative? Of course not. But they have a serious impact on the national consciousness and perception of police.

Just like 1 psychotic break for SSG Robert Bales ruined any possible good being done in Panjwayi Afghanistan, so too does every incident of police brutality, or general dickheadery, erode trust a little more. Every time a police officer approaches someone like an dickhead instead of a person. Every time a cop acts like his badge and gun somehow excuse him from a little human decency, they are the ones who have brought it to where it is now.

Police have a serious public relations problem, and frankly they largely brought it upon themselves. Departments across the nation seem to be about as self-aware as the cretins at 16th Street mall.

As my first Platoon Sergeant said, "You can have 1000 attaboys, but all it takes is one 'ah, shit'."

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Just had this pop into my recommended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUhdc1GAddk

Jocko making the same point: public relations are in need of fixing.

He also makes a great point about the "us vs them" problem. I'd tack on, in his example of cops who are nervous, etc., that the public is in the same boat. Just as any cop on any stop may be walking up to a car wondering if he's about to get into a gun fight, so too does a not insignificant portion of the public wonder if any interaction with police will lead to a fabricated arrest, injury, or death.

Know those videos they show in the academy of cops getting murdered on country roads, dash cam catching them screaming in terror as the criminal unloads into them at point blank range? Those are a double edged sword. They show a statistically unlikely reality in order to drill not being complacent. But they also propagandize and instill fear. Similarly, when people see videos of police brutality or cops murdering people who didn't do something so heinous as to deserve such treatment, or the cops are obviously escalating the situation, the same statistically unlikely reality is instilled in the mind of the public.

For those who would guffaw at the public having such a perception, I would pose the following question: if the statistically unlikely is enough to completely put away such fears, or serve as fodder for derision, then why do you carry a gun?

This is not a subject where we can have an "iron sight" argument. 99% of what we see is due to bad optics. So perhaps it would be a good idea for police nationwide to stop drinking their own Kool Aid and using CounterSniper™ optics style pounding of the table. They need some Schmidt and Bender or Nightforce level PR. Cus right now? Well, right now, the multi-colored, switchable reticle with military overrun on the box ain't looking so hot.

The officer would ordinarily have a claim for malicious prosecution when this is all over. If not for prosecutorial immunity... which is pretty much absolute unlike qualified immunity. Little is worse than a politicized, weaponized prosecutor, they make a bad cop look angelic.

Regardless of Police, weapons trainer, etc, I think Cardiologist and psychiatrist would agree that this is most likely difficult situation to avoid.

The officer with the vest and about 20+ lbs load was running (at temp well over 80F) while bad guy had a active weapon taser. His heard rate is probably at 160bps. When bad guy try to shoot the officer with taser, I am fairly sure even very hard trainer police or even rambo/Chuck Norris' heart rate would be well over 180s at that point. Taking a pistol out of level 2 or 3 safariland ALS and/or SLS retention pistol while running + at 180bps would not be easy thing to do.
If the guy who got shot at by taser had a time machine to stop a time, and had good 5 minutes of relax time (to lower his BP/BPS/temp , I am sure he would've have managed to not fire? who knows.

Good point, and I'm surprised that he was able to land any shot on the suspect. Had I been in the same circumstance, there wouldn't be a news article about "murdering" an "African American innocent young man", but instead, hitting somebody's house 1/4 of a mile away while they're in the bath or something. He needs a marksmanship badge.

I had a friend about 10 years ago (we no longer talk due to George Zimmerman views) told me this funny story. He has ccw and black w/ Japanese first name. He got pulled over once by Denver, and he wanted to be nice and told the officer he has a gun.
Officer asked him where the gun was at, and he said it was on his hip. Officer slowly and slowly walked away, then speed increased. While he was somewhat running back to his patrol car, he try to pull out his firearm multiple times, but he could not clear his retention for good 5 second! :)

Those duty holster has many retention so that some bad guy would not yoink it out of the holster. Need many many practices.
Of course, i told him that he should presented the ccw first and told him that he has a firearm. "I have a GUN!"may not be a great way to tell some of officers who haven't had leo job for years.

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Originally Posted by CS1983

He also makes a great point about the "us vs them" problem. I'd tack on, in his example of cops who are nervous, etc., that the public is in the same boat. Just as any cop on any stop may be walking up to a car wondering if he's about to get into a gun fight, so too does a not insignificant portion of the public wonder if any interaction with police will lead to a fabricated arrest, injury, or death.

Know those videos they show in the academy of cops getting murdered on country roads, dash cam catching them screaming in terror as the criminal unloads into them at point blank range? Those are a double edged sword. They show a statistically unlikely reality in order to drill not being complacent. But they also propagandize and instill fear. Similarly, when people see videos of police brutality or cops murdering people who didn't do something so heinous as to deserve such treatment, or the cops are obviously escalating the situation, the same statistically unlikely reality is instilled in the mind of the public.

For those who would guffaw at the public having such a perception, I would pose the following question: if the statistically unlikely is enough to completely put away such fears, or serve as fodder for derision, then why do you carry a gun?

This is not a subject where we can have an "iron sight" argument. 99% of what we see is due to bad optics. So perhaps it would be a good idea for police nationwide to stop drinking their own Kool Aid and using CounterSniper? optics style pounding of the table. They need some Schmidt and Bender or Nightforce level PR. Cus right now? Well, right now, the multi-colored, switchable reticle with military overrun on the box ain't looking so hot.

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Maybe. One huge difference is an officer generally has no idea who he's dealing with...avg Joe Citizen or multi-time convicted, violent felon. Joe Citizen knows he's dealing with an officer and the chances of that officer being "bad" are exceedingly slim. Joe Citizen probably has an interaction with police once a year, if that. An officer potentially contacts multiple people per shift. So I don't think it's quite the same. Not to mention it's all the rage for the media now to WANT to make police look bad so that's all we hear about. We don't get to see the hundreds of thousands of police/citizen contacts every single day that don't result in something negative aside from maybe a traffic ticket.

I don't think your "why do you carry a gun" comment makes sense nor does it stand up under scrutiny for the very reasons I pointed out.

I do agree law enforcement has a PR problem. I also think a lot of that problem is exacerbated by a biased media that takes all sorts of false ideas (like "hands up, don't shoot") and gives them credibility where none should exist.

That's not to say there aren't a few bad apples. We all know there are and we've seen examples recently. But they're pretty few and far between. They're like planes...one crash and it's all over the news with no mention of the hundreds of thousands that took off and landed safely.

This bullshit going on in Atlanta with this asshole DA is as bad as pretty much anything we've seen the cops do. It's my understanding with the charges against Rolfe the death penalty is actually on the table. That is just an outrageous example of misconduct by a DA. It also appears the second officer is trying to throw Rolfe under the bus...most likely in an effort to either not get charged or to keep his job or both. From watching the video of the shooting he looked like he couldn't decide to shit or get off the pot.

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“And, the positivity of this situation is the courageousness of Officer Brosnan to step forward and say what happened was wrong. It is officers like that who change policing.”

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Maybe Brosnan is just an altruistic person. Somehow, I don't think that's his motivation. Of course, that's pure speculation on my part. I think it's more likely he's trying to avoid legal or civil issues (read $$) by cooperating with the DA and/or thug's family attorney.

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Originally Posted by MrPrena

Regardless of Police, weapons trainer, etc, I think Cardiologist and psychiatrist would agree that this is most likely difficult situation to avoid.

The officer with the vest and about 20+ lbs load was running (at temp well over 80F) while bad guy had a active weapon taser. His heard rate is probably at 160bps. When bad guy try to shoot the officer with taser, I am fairly sure even very hard trainer police or even rambo/Chuck Norris' heart rate would be well over 180s at that point. Taking a pistol out of level 2 or 3 safariland ALS and/or SLS retention pistol while running + at 180bps would not be easy thing to do.
If the guy who got shot at by taser had a time machine to stop a time, and had good 5 minutes of relax time (to lower his BP/BPS/temp , I am sure he would've have managed to not fire? who knows.

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Agreed completely. Best I can tell from the video is it was about a 1-2 second reaction time by the officer from when the taser is fired at him and when he fired back. That includes him dropping his taser, unholstering and taking 4 shots, 2 of which were very well placed on a moving threat. It's doesn't get much fast than that in those circumstances.

There was ZERO time for him to even begin to consider that MAYBE the taser hadn't hit him and to process the fact that the taser had been discharged twice and that it wasn't a threat anymore as the DA said he should have.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

It also appears the second officer is trying to throw Rolfe under the bus...most likely in an effort to either not get charged or to keep his job or both. From watching the video of the shooting he looked like he couldn't decide to shit or get off the pot.

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It was VERY clear to me the first time I watched the video that Bronsan most definitely couldn't decide to shit or get off the pot and it was his failure to act decisively that lead to him getting his taser taken from him and his co-worker's life ruined. You can hear him say "I'm going to tase you" as he gingerly tries to find a suitable spot to maybe tase Brooks' leg instead of just getting it done.

And the damn guy is going to testify for the prosecution while Rolfe is held without bond, facing life and maybe the death penalty. This is fucked.

I may have missed the comments, but Guess the DA has gone off and done this even before GBI has finished their investigation.

Here's a link to full bodycam for those interested. https://youtu.be/4O2IReqaYqw