More liberal hypocrisy

So my route to work involves driving on the 6th Ave service road that runs right by Red Rocks Community College and I get on Indiana right by the West Metro fire station that's next to the Jeffco fairgrounds. As some may know, Mitt Romney was there this morning. Lo and behold what do I see as I make the turn onto Indiana? Protesters. 1st thought was "Why are you d-bags not working?" Then I saw one of the signs: "Accountability Mr. Romney, is that too much to ask?" [Bang]

I wanted to pull over, go walk up to them, and ask "Accountability? Really? Two words- ERIC HOLDER... oh and what about highest unemployment rate since the great depression?" Idiots. They are so hypocritical they don't even realize it! [Mad]
/rant

I want you to take the rest of the day and take our Eric Holder accountability down there!

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

So my route to work involves driving on the 6th Ave service road that runs right by Red Rocks Community College and I get on Indiana right by the West Metro fire station that's next to the Jeffco fairgrounds. As some may know, Mitt Romney was there this morning. Lo and behold what do I see as I make the turn onto Indiana? Protesters. 1st thought was "Why are you d-bags not working?" Then I saw one of the signs: "Accountability Mr. Romney, is that too much to ask?" [Bang]

I wanted to pull over, go walk up to them, and ask "Accountability? Really? Two words- ERIC HOLDER... oh and what about highest unemployment rate since the great depression?" Idiots. They are so hypocritical they don't even realize it! [Mad]
/rant

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So, if someone calls for accountability for one person, they should also list all of the other folks that should also have accountability called into question? We already have Congress investigating Holder; what other actions would you expect to happen?

Regarding accuracy, according to the BLS, the highest unemployment since the great depression was in November 1982, at 10.8%

http://www.google.com/publicdata/exp...mployment+rate

Here's a non-seasonal adjustment history:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104719.html/

You know, it's fine to rant, but try to be accurate in your claims, unless you don't care.

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Originally Posted by Rucker61

So, if someone calls for accountability for one person, they should also list all of the other folks that should also have accountability called into question? We already have Congress investigating Holder; what other actions would you expect to happen?

Regarding accuracy, according to the BLS, the highest unemployment since the great depression was in November 1982, at 10.8%

http://www.google.com/publicdata/exp...mployment+rate

Here's a non-seasonal adjustment history:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104719.html/

You know, it's fine to rant, but try to be accurate in your claims, unless you don't care.

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First, Ok, I get that, but they say 8% but in reality there are estimates that the jobless is actually closer to 12-14% (Remember, unemployment only accounts for those collecting unemployment, it doesn't take into account those whose benefits ran out but are still not working).

You honestly think that they're going to do much of anything to Holder? What about Obama's role in this? I thought the buck stops here? I know if I screw up at work it reflects poorly on my employer and ultimately he's responsible for the actions of those who work for him. Is it not the same here? And Congress investigating Holder and Holder having accountability for his actions are two different matters. The douche should man up for what he has done and be... accountable and responsible for his actions, part of being a man, ya know?

Not defending liberals at all, but people on both sides are hypocrites and do that crap

Sincerly,

This Libertarian who thinks you're all nuts [Beer]

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

First, Ok, I get that, but they say 8% but in reality there are estimates that the jobless is actually closer to 12-14% (Remember, unemployment only accounts for those collecting unemployment, it doesn't take into account those whose benefits ran out but are still not working).

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Understood. Remember that all of those historical figures include that same calculation.

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You honestly think that they're going to do much of anything to Holder?

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I think that largely depends on Congress. Since the current process would call for Holder to investigate himself, and this is an election year, I don't think it likely that anything will happen anytime soon.

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What about Obama's role in this? I thought the buck stops here? I know if I screw up at work it reflects poorly on my employer and ultimately he's responsible for the actions of those who work for him. Is it not the same here?

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See above. Yes, accountability runs uphill. It stopped with Scooter Libby, though, and LTC North, and there are many instances in the past with Administrations of both parties where fall guys were used. Admittedly Holder is pretty far up, but how far down does it go down? Are Regimental Commanders taken to task for the stupid stuff Joe Snuffy does?

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And Congress investigating Holder and Holder having accountability for his actions are two different matters. The douche should man up for what he has done and be... accountable and responsible for his actions, part of being a man, ya know?

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Ah, you're attributing manly traits to politicians. That's mistake one. Most of them haven't even reached vertebrate status, and never will.

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Originally Posted by Rucker61

See above. Yes, accountability runs uphill. It stopped with Scooter Libby, though, and LTC North, and there are many instances in the past with Administrations of both parties where fall guys were used. Admittedly Holder is pretty far up, but how far down does it go down? Are Regimental Commanders taken to task for the stupid stuff Joe Snuffy does?



Ah, you're attributing manly traits to politicians. That's mistake one. Most of them haven't even reached vertebrate status, and never will.

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You're comparing what a lower enlisted does to Holder being in charge of F&F? I almost, for a second there, forgot you were our token liberal, but thanks for reminding me. The accountability of Holder is that he knew about the operation, and in good conscience didn't stop to say "wait, I'm in charge, I can stop this, this is a bad idea."

I wasn't referring to manliness, you misunderstand, being a "Man" in terms of "be a responsible adult, take responsibility for what you do." I don't know if we can discuss with you, you take things out of context just a bit. If Holder is the boss of the Head of the BATFE, and he orders an operation that is clearly giving guns to cartels, and he knows about it, then he is responsible. If a Regimental commander tells his BDE commanders to "Conduct COIN Operations in XXXX" and a PV2 dicks up it's a totally different matter and the blame lies with the PV2's direct superior usually.

Oh come on... everybody know that the BLS stats are not even close to accurate. When you own the numbers, you can present them however you want...

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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Oh come on... everybody know that the BLS stats are not even close to accurate. When you own the numbers, you can present them however you want...

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I think we can all agree that trying to measure statistics on a national level will always have some degree of inaccuracy, but we have to have some measurement. What would be more accurate?

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

You're comparing what a lower enlisted does to Holder being in charge of F&F?

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No, I think it was pretty clear that I was not making that comparison.

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I almost, for a second there, forgot you were our token liberal, but thanks for reminding me.

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Actually, I'm a moderate. Remember, liberals are anti-gun, and think corporations are a bad idea. I pull the best viewpoints from both sides and leave the psycho stuff to the extremists on both sides.

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The accountability of Holder is that he knew about the operation, and in good conscience didn't stop to say "wait, I'm in charge, I can stop this, this is a bad idea."

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Admittedly, it was a bad idea. Unfortunately, you don't always know it's a bad idea until you try it.

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I wasn't referring to manliness, you misunderstand, being a "Man" in terms of "be a responsible adult, take responsibility for what you do."

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That's exactly how I read it.

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I don't know if we can discuss with you, you take things out of context just a bit. If Holder is the boss of the Head of the BATFE, and he orders an operation that is clearly giving guns to cartels, and he knows about it, then he is responsible.

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I clearly accept this. Question for you: were guns willingly sold by FFLs in Arizona, legally, to straw buyers in Arizona who it turn sold them illegally to the Mexican drug cartels happening before either of the ATF sting operations in the Bush and Obama adminstrations took place? It's obvious that they were, or the ATF wouldn't have gotten involved in the first place. Regardless of whether Operation Wide Receiver or Operation Fast and Furious had taken place, guns would have flowed to the cartels, and the scumbags that killed our agents would have possessed guns.

It's not illegal for the authorities to not arrest folks in a criminal act. That's how stings operate. It's not illegal to keep covert operations covert. Lying to Congress is illegal, and we have due process to account for that. OF&F was a stupid operation, but not an illegal one. Unfortunately, lives were lost. Unfortunately, lives were lost during the war in Afghanistan, too. We're fighting a War on Drugs, remember?

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If a Regimental commander tells his BDE commanders to "Conduct COIN Operations in XXXX" and a PV2 dicks up it's a totally different matter and the blame lies with the PV2's direct superior usually.

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I agreed. I wasn't claiming that the two were the same - I was presenting different ends of the issue, and asking opinions for where the line was drawn. While the direct superior is certainly responsible for his/her immediate subordinates, many commands have been lost by actions that the commanders could have have reasonably controlled. Let the JOD put a cruiser on sandbar while the Captain is asleep and see who keeps their job.