Obama Caused This Ammo Shortage

Obama actually caused this ammo shortage and Congress is reining him in? I liked to feel that it was just a lot of folks beginning to become preppers. A "surplus of customers" to quote another forum member. But for Congress to have to debate why DHS and its offspring are stockpiling ammunition is a scandal. I see evil in government...http://news.yahoo.com/gop-lawmakers-...005425316.html

When I worked for Silverthorne, every Wednesday was a range day. Minimum of 100 rounds shot. There were 16 officers at the department.

Most of the ammo the department ordered was ball ammo when we carried HST. People would ask why we neded the ball ammo if we were using HST. You do the math

I am pretty sure that is one we can all get behind. I also don't see how the current crop of Democrats could spin it. On one hand they are wasting money and depriving citizens or on the otherhand playing into the "Government is coming to tyranny" conspiricy theories for why they need more ammo than the DoD.

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Originally Posted by CroiDhubh

When I worked for Silverthorne, every Wednesday was a range day. Minimum of 100 rounds shot. There were 16 officers at the department.

Most of the ammo the department ordered was ball ammo when we carried HST. People would ask why we neded the ball ammo if we were using HST. You do the math

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Having worked for or with many departments, I'll say that your department shot waaay more than most. (not just Colorado)
Many only qualify and shoot once or twice a year firing only 50 rounds. Training was a personal responsibility and many only shot during quals.
That said, I felt unprepared if I shot less than once a week. A typical training week was 200 rounds between carbine and secondary. (i messed up the average)


I do believe that this ammo shortage is govmnt related. Many theories for the cause, but civilian supply and demand isn't the reason.

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Originally Posted by CroiDhubh

When I worked for Silverthorne, every Wednesday was a range day. Minimum of 100 rounds shot. There were 16 officers at the department.

Most of the ammo the department ordered was ball ammo when we carried HST. People would ask why we neded the ball ammo if we were using HST. You do the math

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And with 16 officers, 200 rounds per week and the 1.6 billion rounds DHS has orders for it would take 2,461,538.46 years for you to go through the ammo.

With 25,000 officers, 200 rounds per week and 1.6 billion rounds you get 6.15 years. I'm willing to bet DHS isn't sending 25,000 people to the range every week to fire 200 rounds.

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Originally Posted by Dave

And with 16 officers, 200 rounds per week and the 1.6 billion rounds DHS has orders for it would take 2,461,538.46 years for you to go through the ammo.

With 25,000 officers, 200 rounds per week and 1.6 billion rounds you get 6.15 years. I'm willing to bet DHS isn't sending 25,000 people to the range every week to fire 200 rounds.

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I'll take your bet.
Look at how many agencies now fall under DHS. Then redo you math. FLETC per shooter does 1-5k per week per shooter per firearm. They train on multiple hand and sub guns daily.
While there may be gray areas for some of you, ANSWER ME THIS.

Based on everyones "concern" over DHS ammo "stockpiling" If i were a non-gun person. WHAT do you as a citizen need to own ammo wise? Really, do you need more than 1-200 rounds at any given time?
I ask because some of the paranoia can be reversed and Start people wondering, why "civilians" Need That much Ammo?

Besides the DHS ammo tin foil has been discussed in a few threads already.

IIRC, the DHS contract was also a multi-year source contract so the total was to be spread out ove a number of years and provided for a number of agencies, some of whom use as much as 500 (or more) rounds per agent per day of training for some of the more rigorous practices. The large government purchases surely had an effect but I'm more inclined to blame fear purchases -- much like the runs on toilet paper, milk and bread in DC after the first PREDICTION of a snowfall ...

I had some friends who worked for the PD of a small college town with under 20 officers. They had no need for stormtrooper armor or MP5 SMGs, but federal funding allowed them to get it so they took full advantage of that. They used to order .45 ACP by the pallet and shot well over a thousand rounds per month in "training." Not so unusual, no cause for alarm.

DHS contract was spread out over ten years - so 160 million rounds a year. If DHS has around 30,000 armed personnel, that comes out to about 100 rounds a week.

At my agency we shoot about 100 rounds a month minimum on standard assignment. Our special unit members shoot much more than that.

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Originally Posted by Circuits

DHS contract was spread out over ten years - so 160 million rounds a year. If DHS has around 30,000 armed personnel, that comes out to about 100 rounds a week.

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Originally Posted by strm_trpr

At my agency we shoot about 100 rounds a month minimum on standard assignment. Our special unit members shoot much more than that.

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Will you 2 please keep logic out of this thread. EVERYONE knows they are ordering it NOW to use LATER, at the range and for training .

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Originally Posted by Circuits

DHS contract was spread out over ten years - so 160 million rounds a year. If DHS has around 30,000 armed personnel, that comes out to about 100 rounds a week.

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5 years 70k personnel

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Originally Posted by Circuits

If DHS has around 30,000 armed personnel, that comes out to about 100 rounds a week.

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Just some food for thought. When I was active duty in the Army we went to the M4 range maybe 4-5 times a year, I wouldn't get anymore than 150 rounds each time we went, more often less because they wanted you to zero asap and re-qualify and get you out of there, but if there was extra ammo people could go re-qual as many times as they wanted (ammo willing) I was a 19D so trigger time was important to many of us.

I'd like to know why on paper DHS agencies would be getting more rounds to fire per week than combat MOS soldiers in the military.

I'm in the reserves now, they have no money for ammo so we go qualify on those M4 laser simulators.

Again, why is it a civilian LEO agency gets more ammo than combat soldiers?

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Originally Posted by jim

I'll take your bet.
Look at how many agencies now fall under DHS. Then redo you math. FLETC per shooter does 1-5k per week per shooter per firearm. They train on multiple hand and sub guns daily.
While there may be gray areas for some of you, ANSWER ME THIS.

Based on everyones "concern" over DHS ammo "stockpiling" If i were a non-gun person. WHAT do you as a citizen need to own ammo wise? Really, do you need more than 1-200 rounds at any given time?
I ask because some of the paranoia can be reversed and Start people wondering, why "civilians" Need That much Ammo?

Besides the DHS ammo tin foil has been discussed in a few threads already.

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Thank you!

People on this board are starting to become the very type of people they criticize. Their hardships are not their fault, but someone else's. Get your shit together, people. Paranoid assholes caused this ammo shortage. The same people who line up at Sportsman's, waiting for their truck to unload, are the people causing this bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Colorado Osprey

Having worked for or with many departments, I'll say that your department shot waaay more than most. (not just Colorado)
Many only qualify and shoot once or twice a year firing only 50 rounds. Training was a personal responsibility and many only shot during quals.
That said, I felt unprepared if I shot less than once a week. A typical training week was 200 rounds between carbine and secondary. (i messed up the average)


I do believe that this ammo shortage is govmnt related. Many theories for the cause, but civilian supply and demand isn't the reason.

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I don't buy into the government conspiracy, especially when dealing with the manufactuers who were telling us as an FFL the same amount of ammo is being made and distributed. Just as a heads up, Federal sold over 3 years of ammo to the civilian market in approximately 46 hours after Sandy Hook.

Also, I know we shot more.

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Originally Posted by Eggysrun

Just some food for thought. When I was active duty in the Army we went to the M4 range maybe 4-5 times a year, I wouldn't get anymore than 150 rounds each time we went, more often less because they wanted you to zero asap and re-qualify and get you out of there, but if there was extra ammo people could go re-qual as many times as they wanted (ammo willing) I was a 19D so trigger time was important to many of us.

I'd like to know why on paper DHS agencies would be getting more rounds to fire per week than combat MOS soldiers in the military.

I'm in the reserves now, they have no money for ammo so we go qualify on those M4 laser simulators.

Again, why is it a civilian LEO agency gets more ammo than combat soldiers?

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In the dark, dark days of Clinton's peacetime Army of the 90s, you'd be lucky to get 200 rounds a YEAR to requal. On a lighter note, since the Boston incident tells us it takes 200 rounds fired to get one hit, I'd say the DHS really needs the practice... ;)

I used to go to the range 3 times a month minimum and shoot at least 100 rounds each time for my .45. Once I got my .40S&W, I shot an additional 100 rounds at a time.

The problem is the ammo jockeys. People who would normally only buy a box or two a month are now there very single day buying the max they can. Said issue is the problem, not the government. My local Wal*Mart has started turning people away who show up every truck shipment because they were there every single Wednesday and Friday. They would literally hang out in the 24hr Wal*Mart in order to get their rounds. These people even admitted to the sales clerk they never before bought so many rounds, "Just to make sure", they could get them again.

Every so often from the area, I'd see 500 rounds become available at $1.25 a round show up on an auction site...and they get it!

One of two things needs to happen: 1. Stop being an ammo jockey! or 2. Ammo prices from the manufacturers have to go through the roof. Also, stop buying the ammo jockey ammo at their inflated prices!

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Originally Posted by foxtrot

Riddle me this: If it's the government causing the shortage, why is the worst hit 22LR? Also answer this: why are calibers the government isn't buying also virtually equally affected?

Que?

Here is your answer: Because dumbass, paranoid idiots want to have 20,000+ rounds in their closet, but they don't want to spend the money on it. So they buy the cheapest shit they can find. Guess what that is (when it was available). 22LR.

Tired of the paranoid circulation. Government purchases - even if increased - are NOTHING compared to the increase in demand caused by customers, specifically, idiotic customers. This is all the making of the US Citizen.

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Good point.

/tips hat

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Originally Posted by jim

Will you 2 please keep logic out of this thread. EVERYONE knows they are ordering it NOW to use LATER, at the range and for training .

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Sorry Jim, I forgot, Logic is dead.

[gohome]

I know numerous officers that work for departments that do very little firearms training because their departments can't afford it. My department cut training from 40 hours a year to 20 hours a year. They also used to give a 50 round box of ball ammo to any officer that requested it each month to encourage shooting on their own. That has been cut in the last several years. A small Arizona PD recently went to an NRA instructor that I know and asked to purchase ammo from him (he has lots) because they couldn't find any ammo to train with.

I just want to shoot my new XDM 9mm but not for $30 a box of 50! Parinoid [pileoshit]!

Maybe is a stupid question but I need to ask, if the demand of ammo is so high apparently by government what friking happens with the powder? Powders are made by Federal? Not right and what happens? Powder valley (a distributor) are running out for months and every time I check everything is out of stock? Powders companies (hogdon, imr, alliant, etc) stop making powder? Maybe one of this companies provide the powder for the "government ammo" but all companies do the same? I don't think so.

In this days reloading is not an option. Actually, after spends some grands in 2 shotshell reloading machines now are taking dust because there is no powder.

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

I know numerous officers that work for departments that do very little firearms training because their departments can't afford it. My department cut training from 40 hours a year to 20 hours a year. They also used to give a 50 round box of ball ammo to any officer that requested it each month to encourage shooting on their own. That has been cut in the last several years. A small Arizona PD recently went to an NRA instructor that I know and asked to purchase ammo from him (he has lots) because they couldn't find any ammo to train with.

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thats crazy to me that you guys are shooting so little(especially in aurora) i always pictured police getting to shoot all the ammo they wanted for free

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Originally Posted by cofi

thats crazy to me that you guys are shooting so little(especially in aurora) i always pictured police getting to shoot all the ammo they wanted for free

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Gotta sell it to the tax payers my friend. When police officers aren't getting into shootings very often then the citizenry doesn't like us spending money on gun stuff. Also, administrations are the same. They often feel there are other things they would rather spend the money on. The most life essential tool on your belt is the one rarely used so it is often forgot about by the people that write checks. I love to shoot and do it on my own. Lots of cops only shoot when they have to...and it is important to get them on the range.

I also don't work for aurora, I live in aurora