I'm going to take your baby, don't resist.

In my book this is kidnapping and would be met with appropriate levels of force.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...-its-on-video/

Quote:

---

The next day police showed up at the Nikolayev’s home with representatives from Child Protective Services (CPS). Alex went outside to meet them, where he says he was “pushed against the building.” When he asked if he was being placed under arrest, he said they “smacked me down onto the ground [and] yelled out, ‘I think I got the keys to the house.’”

Seeing the scene outside, Anna set up a camera in front of her door.


Video shows police letting themselves in without a warrant, and taking the baby.


“I’m going to grab your baby, and don’t resist, and don’t fight me okay?” one officer can be heard telling the mother in the video.

---

It's Kali, they can do what they want..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brokenscout

It's Kali, they can do what they want..

---

Coming soon to a part of Colorado near you.

yeah.... would probably go down swinging if somebody came to get my son....

I know, I saw this earlier. This is getting really out of hand with LE just doing what they want regardless of the law.

If you're not a cop, you're little people. - Blade Runner

When Policemen break the law then there is no law. - Billy Jack

I am the law - Judge Dredd

Thank you, the honest LE out there for what you do. We greatly appreciate the work and sacrifice that you and your families do on our behalf. Please do not fall into the political trap and always remember your oath that you gave to us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rooskibar03

In my book this is kidnapping and would be met with appropriate levels of force.

---

Fortunately for this child, his parents were a little more level-headed. While I understand the sentiment it would've ended far worse than it did for everyone involved.

The police probably had nothing to do with this other than to escort CPS to the home after being told there's a child in danger. You can resist all you want and your "appropriate levels of force" would've been met with even more force over which you wouldn't be able to prevail. And how would that turn out for your child or your wife? Or you?

No, these parents were smarter than that. Yes, it's a severe injustice and it's a disgrace. No question. But in the end, I bet the courts side with the parents and I bet someone will be made to pay big $$.

what if the courts dont?

this is scary stuff.... you have to pick your battles obviously, but damn....

I thoguth before I reaad the story there was more to it ... in that the parents were bad....


but holy crap more to the story in that all involved ( on the governments side.. cops and CPS) need to be brought up on charges.

Sounds a bit like the Doctor " god complex" reared it's ugly head. And doctor didn't like his diagnosis being challenged.

I may or may not have a heart murmur.... I've had 2 docs say I do .. 3 say I don't... of the 2 that say I do .. one say its bad.. the other say its very minor...

Quote:

---

He acknowledges that the couple erred in taking their baby from Sutter Memorial without a proper discharge,

---

Fuck that. I was once at an Urgent care and I did not like the staff that was working at all. They were literally, IMHO, trying to scare my wife into un-necessary tests for my son, and I told the male nurse that he had better go get someone who could explain wtf he was talking about better, or we were leaving right then. He got an actual doctor who agreed that the tests were not 100% nec. and we could simply keep an eye on the little guys symptoms and come back in the AM. The first guy was a dick, and I was a thin line from an assault charge.
I get that in our litigious society medical professionals are scared as cats in the dog pound, and of course they are out for every single dollar they can bring in, but that crap is getting old fast. And obviously, if you dont agree to it they get pissy and crap like the article happens. Its for your own good citizen, relax. Enhance your calm citizen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dwalker460

[/COLOR][/FONT]


Fuck that. I was once at an Urgent care and I did not like the staff that was working at all. They were literally, IMHO, trying to scare my wife into un-necessary tests for my son, and I told the male nurse that he had better go get someone who could explain wtf he was talking about better, or we were leaving right then. He got an actual doctor who agreed that the tests were not 100% nec. and we could simply keep an eye on the little guys symptoms and come back in the AM. The first guy was a dick, and I was a thin line from an assault charge.
I get that in our litigious society medical professionals are scared as cats in the dog pound, and of course they are out for every single dollar they can bring in, but that crap is getting old fast. And obviously, if you dont agree to it they get pissy and crap like the article happens. Its for your own good citizen, relax. Enhance your calm citizen.

---

yup...agreed

Hell half the stuff that happens at hospitals doesn't make sense...


I was in the hospital in nov of last year.. after they let me out of ICU I got asked at every shift change if I wanted more morphine.. I said no but can I get an aspirin or Advil.. something to knock the low grade headache I had..... took 2 days for me to get one after I complained to a administrative head nurse that was doing the " how do you like our service so far" check up with me. but every 8 hours till that happened I was offered more morphine...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Fortunately for this child, his parents were a little more level-headed. While I understand the sentiment it would've ended far worse than it did for everyone involved.

The police probably had nothing to do with this other than to escort CPS to the home after being told there's a child in danger. You can resist all you want and your "appropriate levels of force" would've been met with even more force over which you wouldn't be able to prevail. And how would that turn out for your child or your wife? Or you?

No, these parents were smarter than that. Yes, it's a severe injustice and it's a disgrace. No question. But in the end, I bet the courts side with the parents and I bet someone will be made to pay big $$.

---

I always love how easy it is to predict the exact respone that will come from certain members when it comes to stories about cops just "doing there jobs".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chad4000

yeah.... would probably go down swinging if somebody came to get my son....

---

I've had to do this and it is not fun. (mine wasn't CPS but there was a court order prohibiting dad from being around his daughter.) Had to take child from dad and give daughter to his ex-wife. At this point he is already committing a crime and if he "wants to go down swinging" that is fine too (I don't fight fair). Plus I'll just add assault on a peace officer and he can think about that in jail while he wears other people's underware and eats rubber food made by people like him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chad4000

what if the courts dont?

this is scary stuff.... you have to pick your battles obviously, but damn....

---

That was my exact thought. It would be hard to keep my natural tendency to protect my child from putting me in a bad spot.

WTF!! That can not be real?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DingleBerns

I've had to do this and it is not fun. (mine wasn't CPS but there was a court order prohibiting dad from being around his daughter.) Had to take child from dad and give daughter to his ex-wife. At this point he is already committing a crime and if he "wants to go down swinging" that is fine too (I don't fight fair). Plus I'll just add assault on a peace officer and he can think about that in jail while he wears other people's underware and eats rubber food made by people like him.

---

Ill refrain from letting on exactly how crazy I would get to protect my son..... lol....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Fortunately for this child, his parents were a little more level-headed. While I understand the sentiment it would've ended far worse than it did for everyone involved.

The police probably had nothing to do with this other than to escort CPS to the home after being told there's a child in danger. You can resist all you want and your "appropriate levels of force" would've been met with even more force over which you wouldn't be able to prevail. And how would that turn out for your child or your wife? Or you?

No, these parents were smarter than that. Yes, it's a severe injustice and it's a disgrace. No question. But in the end, I bet the courts side with the parents and I bet someone will be made to pay big $$.

---

So where do we draw the line before we come Nazi Germany? First its let me in because I'm looking for a terrorist. Next it's let me in because someone thinks you're a danger to your child.

Whats next, we need to come in and look at your guns, we understand you're a member of an online community of gun owners.

I don't care if you're wearing a badge or not, if you step through my door univited and take something, especially my child, I may go down but not without a fight.

Where is the point when we finally say enough is enough?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blacklabel

That was my exact thought. It would be hard to keep my natural tendency to protect my child from putting me in a bad spot.

---

yeah Im with you.... if i was a little younger, Im putting myself in a bad spot for sure lol..... hopefully a little wiser now, but it cant be guaranteed lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rooskibar03

So where do we draw the line before we come Nazi Germany? First its let me in because I'm looking for a terrorist. Next it's let me in because someone thinks your a danger to your child.

Whats next, we need to come in and look at your guns, we understand you're a member of an online community of gun owners.

Where is the point when we finally say enough is enough?

---

+1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jesus-With-A-.45

I always love how easy it is to predict the exact respone that will come from certain members when it comes to stories about cops just "doing there jobs".

---

Yeah...almost as predictable as how badass the internet commandos are gonna be "if the cops did that to me/my kid/my family."

Question......


For this one example of blatant abuse of the system by the Doctors/CPS.. ( I don;t blame the cops as much they probably had little knowledge of what was going on other then CPS said the kid is in danger so we are backing them up)

How many Kids do they TRUELY save ? 10 ... 2 .. 3 ... ?

Is that worth the risk of one fuck up to save the other 10 ? or is letting the other ten be abused ok to prevent the one fuck up ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jesus-With-A-.45

I always love how easy it is to predict the exact respone that will come from certain members when it comes to stories about cops just "doing there jobs".

---

And you apparently either didn't read or didn't comprehend this part:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Yes, it's a severe injustice and it's a disgrace. No question.

---

But being outraged about what you know about others is much more fun, isn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Yeah...almost as predictable as how badass the internet commandos are gonna be "if the cops did that to me/my kid/my family."

---

if we already agree that it's an injustice,, then we are just debating how to deal with it. You trust the system and the courts.... not sure I do...

just playing devils advocate here. (because I agree, that anybody who really wanted to "fight" would end up losing). But if you wouldnt fight when somebody (cops or not) are taking your kid, would you ever fight? that can be rhetorical if you want....

certainly have to pick your battles. swat going door to door in boston was a huge injustice. would I have put up a fight? probably not.... CPS taking my kid like they did the one in the story? maybe.....maybe......

So somebody explain to me on here exactly how they do this? Do they just do it because CPS has some mystical power to "legally" seize your children? Or did they have a court order or injunction? Or maybe the doctors go to the CPS and the CPS swears an affidavit to the district attorney, who orders the police to seize the child? I know one thing, federal court jurors can be brutal to local government mistakes financially. In other words what is the "due process of law" in this case?

Good thing this was posted. CPS is out snatching children left and right. Come on, I have left children in some pretty horrible places. It take a whole hell of a lot of work to remove a child from a house. People just don't go in off some random accusation and take children.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chad4000

if we already agree that it's an injustice,, then we are just debating how to deal with it. You trust the system and the courts.... not sure I do...

just playing devils advocate here. (because I agree, that anybody who really wanted to "fight" would end up losing). But if you wouldnt fight when somebody (cops or not) are taking your kid, would you ever fight? that can be rhetorical if you want....

certainly have to pick your battles. swat going door to door in boston was a huge injustice. would I have put up a fight? probably not.... CPS taking my kid like they did the one in the story? maybe.....maybe......

---

This isn't a battle to prove how tough you are. This is a battle to ultimately get what's best for your child and your family. Fighting the cops and getting hurt (or worse) and going to jail would've benefited the family how, exactly? If you fight, the kids are leaving with CPS anyway.

I've never had a problem fighting. But there have also been plenty that I've walked away from for various reasons. Do you think the smart warrior blindly charges into a battle he/she can't possibly win? Or do you think the smart warrior plots a strategy and gathers the resources needed to best insure a positive outcome to the fight?

It appears we agree that had the father/mother fought the cops, they would've lost. So my question to you is, would that put the child in a better position or worse position? I'm not minimizing what happened in any way. But the parents were obviously a lot smarter than some people on this forum and they approached this in the right way.

And frankly, I've been put in that situation as a cop and it sucked. Jesus and his .45 apparently think the cops sit around eating donuts and conspiring about how they're gonna go ruin some family's day and violate their rights and kick their dog. A lot of people who have exactly ZERO law enforcement experience always seem to know more about the cop's job than the cop. I don't know why that is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

This isn't a battle to prove how tough you are. This is a battle to ultimately get what's best for your child and your family. Fighting the cops and getting hurt (or worse) and going to jail would've benefited the family how, exactly? If you fight, the kids are leaving with CPS anyway.

I've never had a problem fighting. But there have also been plenty that I've walked away from for various reasons. Do you think the smart warrior blindly charges into a battle he/she can't possibly win? Or do you think the smart warrior plots a strategy and gathers the resources needed to best insure a positive outcome to the fight?

It appears we agree that had the father/mother fought the cops, they would've lost. So my question to you is, would that put the child in a better position or worse position? I'm not minimizing what happened in any way. But the parents were obviously a lot smarter than some people on this forum and they approached this in the right way.

And frankly, I've been put in that situation as a cop and it sucked. Jesus and his .45 apparently think the cops sit around eating donuts and conspiring about how they're gonna go ruin some family's day and violate their rights and kick their dog. A lot of people who have exactly ZERO law enforcement experience always seem to know more about the cop's job than the cop. I don't know why that is.

---

Because those people are looking at it from a civil rights/perceived rights issue and the cops are looking at it from the law/department mandates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

This isn't a battle to prove how tough you are. This is a battle to ultimately get what's best for your child and your family. Fighting the cops and getting hurt (or worse) and going to jail would've benefited the family how, exactly? If you fight, the kids are leaving with CPS anyway.

I've never had a problem fighting. But there have also been plenty that I've walked away from for various reasons. Do you think the smart warrior blindly charges into a battle he/she can't possibly win? Or do you think the smart warrior plots a strategy and gathers the resources needed to best insure a positive outcome to the fight?

It appears we agree that had the father/mother fought the cops, they would've lost. So my question to you is, would that put the child in a better position or worse position? I'm not minimizing what happened in any way. But the parents were obviously a lot smarter than some people on this forum and they approached this in the right way.

And frankly, I've been put in that situation as a cop and it sucked. Jesus and his .45 apparently think the cops sit around eating donuts and conspiring about how they're gonna go ruin some family's day and violate their rights and kick their dog. A lot of people who have exactly ZERO law enforcement experience always seem to know more about the cop's job than the cop. I don't know why that is.

---

Im not really talking about being tough.... this is a really touchy subject, and its really hard to tip toe around. I am thinking grand scheme... just going to throw out some hypotheticals here: would it be better for your son to know that his dad fought when people came for him? would it be better for his children someday if a few of us fought against obvious injustice? would it happen less if a few of us fought? I have no idea.... just throwing ideas out....

Another Question ........... ( even tho my last was ignored...)

If they had taken the kid form the first hospital... and NOT gone to the second.. just went home ... and the baby died.. would any of you say the parents needed to be brought up on charges? or what even the baby survived also ?


I'll hold my opinion till I see some others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clublights

Question......


For this one example of blatant abuse of the system by the Doctors/CPS.. ( I don;t blame the cops as much they probably had little knowledge of what was going on other then CPS said the kid is in danger so we are backing them up)

How many Kids do they TRUELY save ? 10 ... 2 .. 3 ... ?

Is that worth the risk of one fuck up to save the other 10 ? or is letting the other ten be abused ok to prevent the one fuck up ?

---

Well, honestly, I don't know who abused the system here. Can you really tell from the article in the OP? Can we really tell exactly what happened based on the article? And I don't think there's really any way to answer your question in terms of numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Well, honestly, I don't know who abused the system here. Can you really tell from the article in the OP? Can we really tell exactly what happened based on the article? And I don't think there's really any way to answer your question in terms of numbers.

---

Well true I didn't expect an actual number back as much as I was making the point that the ability of CPS to take children on an emergency basis has merit and Good intent. I'm sure they have taken many more kids for good reasons that all of us would agree with and support, And that this happens many more times more often then an abuse of the system as apparent from the current report of this incident..

Because as we know, cops never get it wrong...

http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/cops-kill...ng-house-raid/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_867020.html

http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/12/18/...se_goes_wrong/

Also, CPS and similar are emboldened by thier police protection. I know a few officers that have had to work closely with CPS and they dont have a lot good to say about it. While obviously there are occassions that demand outside intervention, my personal opinion as a father is that society has ceded too much authority to nameless faceless employees that often exercise authority in situations where they should, bluntly, butt the hell out of. Hiding behind armed men only makes it worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dwalker460

Also, CPS and similar are emboldened by thier police protection. I know a few officers that have had to work closely with CPS and they dont have a lot good to say about it. While obviously there are occassions that demand outside intervention, my personal opinion as a father is that society has ceded too much authority to nameless faceless employees that often exercise authority in situations where they should, bluntly, butt the hell out of. Hiding behind armed men only makes it worse.

---

absolutely agree.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dwalker460

Because as we know, cops never get it wrong...

http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/cops-kill...ng-house-raid/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_867020.html

http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/12/18/...se_goes_wrong/

---

FFS. Some people just can't look at anything rationally. Who, exactly, said the cops "never get it wrong" in this thread, except you?

Have you ever made a serious mistake or error in judgment? Do plumbers, mechanics, pilots, presidents, janitors, stock brokers or humans in general make mistakes. Some of you guys are just petty in your ridiculous comments.

^^ Police are held to a higher standard then plumbers and janitors....

its a thankless job for sure... i dont envy the posistion that our good officers are in one bit...

Cops make mistakes.. yeah it happens.. yes they are held to a higher standard...

all of the links dwalker posted are examples of why no knock raids should either be banned or MUCH MUCH more tightly controlled. ( I vote for tighter controls)

But here again ... WHY attack the cops ? The cops were there under orders to help CPS. they had little to zero knowledge of the story .. hell for all YOU know the cops only heard a 1/4 of the story. kid sick.. needs surgery. parents took him secretively out of the hospital.

The police from what I see here currently acted on good faith. I have no doubt CPS is the boogie man on this one.

The parents did the right thing and continue to do the right thing by cooperating.

Whoever caused this blunder will pay both with their career and with a lot of money after the family is paid out in lawsuits.

For the record I'm not fond of this situation but I'm also not fond of reading stories about children who die after their parents refuse medical treatment for them. There was an article I recently read about parents who had two children die because they refused medical treatment and prayed for their children to be healed.

Apparently impossibly high standards according to some.